Ugh dead Canon S450 any hope? If not what should I replace it with?

[cogvos]

Dear all,

My trusty Canon S450 has died. I was printing a colour document when half way through a page the drive threw up a 5600 error. It suggested turning the printer on and off. I did and the printer now does not respond. It flashes the power light, 6 times orange and then one slightly longer one in green before repeating. Apparently this means that the print heads are installed the wrong way around. However as it happened whilst the printer was working this is not likely.

1st question
Does anyone know if it is possible to fix? I have a feeling that taking it back to Canon would be more expensive than getting a new printer so I've been look at this.

I've been looking around at ink jets and colour lasers but to be honest its all as clear as mud. It appears that a Canon replacement, such as the IP4300 uses different ink to the S450 and that the amount you get is less and more expensive. I compared two colour cartridges and the new '8' style are slightly thinner with a smaller ink reservoir, yet cost 1 pound (2 dollars) more. Also the IP4300 has another black. Why? The S450 has 3 colour and a nice large black. This 'extra' black is the same size as the colour carts. If I've got it right the 'extra' black is used when printing on photo paper. but this means that it will be used up quicker than the colour cartridges. Compared to the S450 this all sounds like a rip off. I can see myself regularly buying single thin black cartridges 'cos they keep running out and colour carts more often as they don't appear to hold as much.

So I started looking at other makes. I like the idea of separate colours. I graphic design and use the printer for client drafts and to test ideas on paper. As a result my use of colour is all over the place, one design might not use yellow at all! (OK the printer might use some but if you have a cyan letter head I would guess not much.)

Most HP's use 3 colour cartridges, these would not be much good. One or two of them use a multi cartridge design ( some of the photo smarts). But I have no idea how good they are, or how high their running costs are. I did look at deskjet pros, the K series which have the ink cartridges separate from the heads. Problem is the reviews I have read stated that the photo output was not brilliant and I can only get cartridges (in the UK) from Staples. They stop stocking and I am stuffed.

HP do colour lasers. The 1600 and 2600n The 1600 is in my price range, the 2600 is outside it. The 1600 comes with introductory toners (last around 1000 pages according to the salesman), the 2600n comes with full toners (3000 pages). Toners cots around 50 ($100) That's a lot.

2nd question (sorry about the length of this)

Can someone recommend a printer;
which has low running costs
can print good quality *accurate* photos (for when clients need a draft that contains them)
Uses separate inks
Is not going to tie me to one ink/cartridge supplier
doesn't try and stitch you into buying a 'special' black for photos. I do not need 100 years + print life!
Is available in the UK

Or do I just want the world?

Hope someone can advise.

 

[fotofreek]

The additional black cart will not add appreciably to your ink costs as you are presently making black with the three color carts, CMY. The plus is that you will get a better black in photos and graphic prints. In the US the ip4300 is being phased out and is on sale this week at Staples for $69. Really a good buy. Unfortunately, Canon put chips on the carts to dissuade people from refilling. If I were you I would buy this printer if you can get a good deal on it. I would buy bulk refill inks and refill my carts for somewhere near one dollar US. Perhaps someone on this forum can tell you where to buy quality bulk aftermarket inks in the UK. Here most people I know use Imaging Specialist, Formulabs, or Hobbicolors refill inks. I should also add that there was a very decent printer, the ip4200, that has all but been sold out. If you see one of those at a really good price you might consider it.

 

[cogvos]

Hi!

Many thanks for the reply. Do you know when Canon started adding chips to it's ink wells? They are not on the 3e or 6 range, are they only on the 8s?
I didn't realise that the s450 made black with the 3 colour carts as I assumed that it was a true cmyk printer. Anyway I am still a bit concerned. If I print a page of A4 which is predominantly black text, but has a photograph in it then where does the printer take the black for the text from? From the large black well, or the smaller one? If it's the smaller then this is going to get used up very quickly, at least with a printer that makes black it would (presumably) use the same amount from each, so a third of the ink from each well rather than all from one?

Any advice?

J.

 

[pharmacist]

Hi Cogvos,

Keep in mind that your older S450 uses the CMY-printing mode and the newer 5-carts printers (2 types of black: dye and pigment) the more efficient CMYK-printing mode. At wikipedia you can find that adding a K(ey=black) element in printing dramatically reduces the amount of colour ink (CMY) needed to print the same picture than with CMY only. In dark pictures the savings in CMY can be up to 60 %, which is substantial. Don't be afraid your dye black cartridge (the smaller one) is used up very quickly: it should last even longer than for example yellow or magenta. It will only come to action when mixing CMY is not enough to obtain the desired darkness/blackness and than the black ink is taking over the job.

So the Canon Pixma IP3300 (CMY) is less efficient with ink than the IP4200/4300/4500 (CMYK) printers !!!

 

[cogvos]

Hi There,

Many thanks for the info. So to clarify (I have a feeling that I am being a bit thick here) when printing a page that is a mixture of photographs and plain black text the small black cartridge would only be used when printing a photographic section that uses the colour cartridges and where the shading is such that just using those would not produce a deep enough colour.

It would not be used when printing the areas that are black text (such as on this post) - the large black cartridge would.

As it is I've seen some 3rd party ink cartridges on Amazon, which are a *lot* cheaper than canons. Can't remember the make. Are there any makes that people would recommend/ avoid?

J.

 

[fotofreek]

The pigmented ink cart is used when plain paper is selected. Pigmented ink doesn't work as well on photo paper. I don't know what the printer does when selecting plain paper and printing a combination of text and color photos. Someone who has done that with one of these printers may answer that question.

The few aftermarket carts available for the new chipped Canon carts require that you remove the chip from the OEM canon cart and put it on the aftermarket cart. Better, as far as I am concerned, is to have an extra set of OEM carts on hand that are refilled. When you see that one cart is 80% empty in the reservoir section, replace all carts and refill/top up the set you removed. Periodically you can purge the extra set and it will then be nearly as good as new for refilling. I have seen one person post that he bought two ip4300 printers when they were on sale. The printer comes with a full set of carts. The cost of the carts alone is about what the printer costs. So - in buying the extra printer for the cost of the ink alone, he got a spare printhead/printer combo for nothing!

 

[pharmacist]

During my experience with a CISS on my Canon IX4000 (which I sold to a friend) I discovered because I could open the lid during printing that choosing printing on plain paper only the black pigmented ink is used whether you are printing just text or a combination of text and pictures. So in order to force the use of the smaller dye black cartridge only you have to set your papersetting to photopaper or equivalent.

 

[cogvos]

I have seen one person post that he bought two ip4300 printers when they were on sale. The printer comes with a full set of carts. The cost of the carts alone is about what the printer costs. So - in buying the extra printer for the cost of the ink alone, he got a spare printhead/printer combo for nothing!

Hmm, this seems a bit excessive and I don't have a lot of storage space. Though of course as you said you get the spare stuff for nothing.
With regards to the chip on the cart, how does this thing actually work? If you remove it from the canon cart and stick it on a 3rd party one won't it whine that the cartridge is empty after a while - like the Epsom ones do, is this why you have to re-fill at 80%? Or is it simply a way of Canon to prevent people using 3rd party cartridges, 'cos they won't sell the 3rd party suppliers the chips. He types cynically...

Finally could you explain what you mean by purge?

Cheers
J

 

[fotofreek]

Refilling an empty OEM Canon cart or transferring the chip to an aftermarket prefilled cart are the same to the printer. You get a nag screen and warning that continuing will blow the warranty. Once you press the right buttons on the printer it will work fine but the ink level monitor is disabled. I refill when carts are no more empty than 80% as the carts will take more refills as they haven't dried out so much. Eventually some dried ink residue builds up in cart and it doesn't function properly for refilling. Purging the cart - a technique written up by Grandad35, a participant on this Forum, cleans out the old ink (dye based inks are water soluble) and then you can refill several more times. I have four year old Canon OEM carts that have been refilled and purged many times Buying two printers at once for the reasons I mentioned being excessive? Consider that if you are refilling and occasionally purging carts you will need an extra set. Why not get a free printer/printhead in the bargain???? You will save so much money refilling the carts that the cost of both printers will become inconsequential.

 

[cogvos]

Dear all,

Thank you once again to everyone who replied to my plea and for the very useful information you gave. In the end I decided to take a bit of a gamble and contacted Canon to see how much my S450 would cost to get fixed. They sent me the details of a company in Luton, England. When I rang them the answer was almost a new printer (50 +, $100 +) and they would charge more if it was the print head. However they were willing to sell me just the head for 30ish ($60). I thus took the gamble and bought a new colour print head for the S450.

It arrived the next day and when I installed it, nada. The same problem. However I also had a spare black print head and when I installed that as well the printer worked! . Although it's a bit odd for two separate components to fail at the same time (unless they have been overloaded by something common to each) I was happy that I have a working printer. Today, before I binned the old print heads I did a re-check. I swapped the black head and the printer still worked :/ hmm. I then swapped the colour heads and the error re-occurred. OK so it was the colour head that had died. I guess they don't last forever. What I cannot understand though is why initially installing a new colour head did not cure the problem until I had swapped the black as well. Bit odd.

Anyway if anyone else gets a 5600 error on a Canon S450 with similar symptoms it *might* be the print heads. I cannot guarantee that replacing one, or both will fix and given the cost of them it could well be cheaper to buy a new printer. It worked for me and if this head lasts as long (7 years) my next printer may well be a colour laser.

J.