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Refilling without resetting Pro-100

Discussion in 'Canon InkJet Printers' started by martincregg, Feb 27, 2017.

  1. Feb 27, 2017
    martincregg

    martincregg Getting Fingers Dirty

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    Is there anything wrong with this method?...

    As soon as one of my cartridges indicates low ink I reset it and refill. I will also top-up all of the other cartridges, but will not reset.

    My theory is that because the other cartridges have not reached the low-ink mark the printer has not sent a message to the cartridge chip and so no need to reset.

    I understand that resetting is not a big issue and so there may be a case for just resetting to be safe, but I'm more curious about this from a theoretical standpoint just to aid my understanding of the process... if that makes sense.

    Thanks... Martin
     
  2. Feb 27, 2017
    stratman

    stratman Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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    No. The printer will inform you of all the stages of low to empty ink for a particular cartridge regardless of you topping off the cartridge without resetting. This is due to the inherent function of the chip and printer that you cannot alter.

    Refilling or not refilling has no effect on the countdown to empty on chipped Canon cartridges. While you may not run out of ink before the cartridge is marked empty, "topping off" without resetting has zero effect on the printer's ability to exclaim an empty or even low ink cartridge.

    This subject has been extensively studied with multiple models of chipped Canon printers. You can either refill and reset the chips or let the chip go to empty and override the ink level functioning to continue to print/refill.
     
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  3. Feb 27, 2017
    martincregg

    martincregg Getting Fingers Dirty

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    I think I understand what you're saying, @stratman. Resetting the chip initializes the countdown to empty, right? What is it that causes the printer to indicate low ink? Is that detected using the prism?
     
  4. Feb 27, 2017
    stratman

    stratman Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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    Yes.

    It is believed to be either the prism or the chip. Various experiments, such as covering the prism, reveal that the countdown to empty occurs as per usual IIRC. It may be the prism is used as an early low ink warning system, as in the normal course of ink usage or when a full cartridge precipitously leaks ink rapidly. The prism has been theorized to initiate a countdown (based on nozzle sprays performed over time) to marking the cartridge as empty so as to add accuracy to the countdown.

    In other words, no one really knows the exact mechanisms or functions. But we have good empirical data to suggest the prism is NOT the overriding monitoring system. That would be the chip.

    The take home message is to refill and reset your cartridges and avoid printing on an empty cartridge to prevent irreparable damage to the print head due to nozzle burnout. It has also been recommended that you refill when the low level warning occurs, ie when the spongeless side of the cartridge is empty, and not wait to refill when the cartridge is marked as empty. The reason is due to presumed to be due to loss of fluid dynamics in the sponge from thickened or caked ink in the latticework of the sponge leading to poor ink flow.
     
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  5. Feb 28, 2017
    jtoolman

    jtoolman Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    Martincregg
    You could be at say, 75% from physically full.
    You then reset to full but not top off the liquid chamber.
    The chips thinks it's full but the cart is obviously not.
    You then continue printing and once the liquid chamber is empty, the prism is exposed to air and guess what that does to the still near full chip level?
    Yes, the LOW warning.
    You can not fool it.
    Best practice?
    Reset all carts and top them off at once.
    Better yet have two full cart sets.
    One in the printer reset and filled.
    Another identical set waiting in the wings to replace the one in the printer as soon as you get a low ink warning.
    Stop trying to fool the system or push your luck.
    Just my advice.
    Joe
     
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  6. Feb 28, 2017
    martincregg

    martincregg Getting Fingers Dirty

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    Not trying to fool the system or push my luck, Joe (@jtoolman). I will always reset when I top off. I'm just trying to understand the way the "system" works.

    My theory was that if the ink level never gets low enough that the prism is exposed to air then there would never be a LOW warning.

    From what @stratman said, I'm understanding that even if that's the case then the countdown to empty will be hit (even though there's still ink in the cart) and so eventually the printer will just show that the cartridge is empty.

    AGAIN... I'm not trying to fool the system... Just understand. :)
     
  7. Feb 28, 2017
    jtoolman

    jtoolman Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    That would be awesome if indeed that was true. The chip will eventually declare it low as well. The Hat and Mikling can explain this subject much better than I could as they have done extensive work with Canon printers and the way the chips report ink levels.
    Joe
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
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  8. Feb 28, 2017
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Moderator

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    @martincregg, As Joe, has said “You can’t fool the system” many have tried and all have failed, including myself many times, try to fool with it, and you may damage your print head, ouch...

    The Prism in the cartridge is your first line of defence, especially if you refill, because once there’s no ink covering the prism, the yellow low ink warning appears, the cartridge chip will also acknowledge the low ink scenario and will activate a precise countdown to empty, with adequate redundancy.

    You can keep on topping up the cartridge without resetting the chip, but after approx. 1 ½ volume fills, the printer will stop on the empty cartridge notice, regardless of the amount of ink still left, in the end you gain nothing.

    It’s better to just reset and refill the cart to 75% full and leave it at that, here again you gain nothing by overfilling the reservoir, because most refilled carts will have about the same level of ink in the sponge side as is in the reservoir side.

    It’s always better to refill when the reservoir first reaches empty, because the then refilled cartridge will perform perfectly as if were a brand new one, poor ink flow is almost guaranteed if you wait to refill after the cart shows empty...
     
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  9. Feb 28, 2017
    stratman

    stratman Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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    As with most things in life there are exceptions. In this case, if you were to use the older CLI-8 cartridges (with Pro-100 CLI-42 chips swapped onto them), something that people use because of the paucity of used CLI-42 cartridges available, then you can

    1) Refill using the Durchstich method instead of the traditional top fill method.
    2) Refill to within 2 - 4 mm of the top of the spongeless side. (You do not want ink above the sponge!) If you overfill then ink will drip out to equilibrate - something already accounted for in the Durchstich method of refilling.
    3) You can let the cartridge go to empty before refilling.

    Concerning point #3:
    Forum member Mikling, who also owns/operates Precision Colors refilling emporium, was the person who reported that letting the sponged side go to empty resulted in drying out of ink in the sponge and ultimately negatively impacting ink flow. IIRC, his research was for cartridges newer than the CLI-8. Regardless, I, and others on the forum, have been using the same CLI-8 cartridges for years, letting the cartridge go until marked empty, and do not have issues Mikling warns about, at least not for years. It appears that neither those who print often (jimbo123) or not (me) are affected differently with regards to sponge-ink dynamics. (Both jimbo123 and I use the Durchstich method of refilling with the CLI-8 cartridges)
     
  10. Feb 28, 2017
    mikling

    mikling Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    After thousands of users of the said kits, and the advice of the refill at low or before, the % of users requiring flushing has dropped to so low I can confidently say it does work. The thousands of users actually represent a large sample size which I can trust 100%. A sample size of a few (in my background does) not allow me to give a confidence interval to make a conclusion as to what is happening. There might be aspects to your refilling that allow you to do this. But remember this......in photoprinting esspecially with PM,PC and LGY and GY the ink flow characteristics can sometimes be more demanding that with printers just using normal CMYK.
    So the practice is not all that needs to be accounted for but the printer itself as well as the type of images. You will also note that after my seminal disclosure of the trick, even Grandad35 also mentioned that refilling when empty once can require the cartridge be flushed. Grandad a numberof years ago closely documented and tracked his refill techniques. I have reports of over 30 to 35 times refilling before purging might be required. Keep in mind that there are a host of other factors that might also come into play but certainly the refill at low can be demonstrated to work in the lab as well as based on thousands of users....in the field as well.

    This is not fake news! ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
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