Refill without Chip resetter

palombian

Printer Master
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
1,440
Reaction score
1,671
Points
257
Location
Belgium
Printer Model
PRO-10, Pro9500II, MAXIFY
Let's say it's the printer equivalent of a regular potty. :p
Wasted ink is going into a removable container instead of being absorbed by the ink pads at the bottom of the printer.
Of course, unless the machine already comes with this feature, installing a potty requires "surgery" and the user must have enough skills and knowledge to perform the operation.
Depending on the model of printer it might be very difficult or relatively easy.
Speaking for myself, I wouldn't dare to do that on my Pro10s.

I did it once on the PRO-9500 with @The Hat's very detailed instructions.
The PRO-10 is built the same, I don't think it will be different.
Once you know how to remove the exterior it is peanuts.
 

mikling

Printer VIP
Platinum Printer Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
3,178
Reaction score
1,438
Points
313
Location
Toronto, Canada
There are a lot of wrong information being dispensed.

I know math is hard but it is sometimes necessary. I have tried to lead horses to the water but some won't drink.
Some printers have maintenance boxes that are available at very reasonable cost.
For example a Pro-1000 maintenance box costs $14.99 USD. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1192445-REG/canon_0628c002_mc_20_maintenance_cartridge.html

A set of chips costs $144USD plus shipping in NA.

You can obtain aftermarket ink for the Pro-1000 at $12 per 82ml plus a recommendation of 4 key OEM colors to maintain the performance to 90+ % and also to obtain better performance over 35 custom ICC profiles to match up.

You can also get a Pro-1000 that actually costs nearly the same as a Pro-300 once you factor the ink in. However a Pro-1000 is NOT for casual users. So that is not the point.

The key thing to understand is that even if you waste more ink. ( And the pro-1000 will NOT automatically purge because a tank was removed and refilled) You need to waste a ton of ink at $12 per tank and waste a LOT of maintenance boxes before you see the economic balance shift. There is actually a lot of conjecture here going on without controlled experiments and I will show this in the future in a planned podcast with charts etc.

I have already demonstrated this in the Epson XP15000. This machines comes with a replaceable maintenance tank for $10USD. I tested the amount of ink that is wasted on a cartridge change and purge. So each time the lid is open and closed and the tank touched, it uses 2.4ml on ink. Other than that normal timings control the purge. A maintenance tank holds about 80ml of ink. Calculate the amount of openings you need to perform before the tanks are filled. Contrast that to the OEM setup of round robbin,. Shocked you are! IF YOU KNOW MATH.

The other thing is that ARC chips do not help at all or can be worse than overriding. Why because with ARC you can never stop the round robbin forced cycles. If you override and fill ALL at the same time, It is highly likely that you will actually save MORE ink than even using OEM tanks not reset and definitely more than an ARC setup.

The only downside are with printers that have no replaceable ink pads. Again however, if one chooses to stick with OEM tank and chips, you are forced into the round robbin, Contrast this against the overriding aspect and topping off all. The other downside is that protection of thermal printheads is SOLELY up to the user.
So for a printer like a Pro-10, your OEM setup will force 10 purge cycles before a cycle of tank switches are finished. If you override and fill ALL at the same time, just how much extra will you use. 10 purges over say 2 extra purges to make sure in an override setup? It is easy to see the picture. How many extra printers can you purchase with the savings! Again, do the math.

I have been carefully experimenting and considering the aspects in a more engineering fashion all this year in anticipation of the coming paradigm shifts that have arrived and while useage patterns may change balances, the conclusion is that is may not be as BAD as you might think.

Certainly, if you are able to obtain a resetter, DO SO. However in the future it might not be as bad as some think once proper analysis, measurements and calculations are done. But math is required and some simulation and modelling is required. That is the hard part because some are unable. A similar situation exists with Finance and the general population many are unable to figure it out for their own circumstances.
 
Last edited:

The Hat

Printer VIP
Moderator
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
12,907
Reaction score
6,577
Points
433
Location
Wicklow Ireland
Printer Model
Canon/3D, CR-10, CR-10S, KP3
what is a printer potty?
https://www.octoink.co.uk/categories/Waste-Ink-Solutions/
The Best thing since sliced bread..:weee
installing a potty requires "surgery" and the user must have enough skills and knowledge to perform the operation.
Depending on the model of printer it might be very difficult or relatively easy.
If you refill and want better control over your printer and how it behaves, then the Printer Potty is essential, getting under the purge unit on the Canon Pro models is not that difficult (Mucky yes) then it’s only a matter of connecting up two tubes, job done..;)
I wouldn't dare to do that on my Pro10s.
Going on the current problems you observed with your nozzle check prints, I reckon your printer maybe having some sort of health issues, so tinkering with her on the inside may not be in her best interest right now..

There are a lot of wrong information being dispensed.
I can’t agree, your whole post is based on pure speculation and some in house testing to get the results you wanted, just in case you haven’t noticed 3rd party inks are getting quite expensive and even using your proposed scenarios, the savings are not all they are made out to be.. Plus there’s a good chance of buggering up the print head..

The best option is to wait and see how these new printer models pan out.. then give informed advise.. I’ll be all ears..
P.S. we need good solid information, not sales pitches..
 

Artur5

Printer Master
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
510
Reaction score
554
Points
228
Printer Model
Canon Maxify 5150,Canon Pro10s
Going on the current problems you observed with your nozzle check prints, I reckon your printer maybe having some sort of health issues, so tinkering with her on the inside may not be in her best interest right now..

Rest assured @The Hat. Right now my nozzle checks are flawless. I'm pretty sure it was an ink problem, not the carts or the printhead. OEM inks seem to clean efectiveky clogs from third party ink.
Anyway, I'm afraid that installing a potty wouldn't do much for my Pro10. Time ago I tinkered unwisely with a wrong version of the software reset tool and I believe that service mode is blocked.

I confess being totally lost by @mikling's last post. I don't now if he recommends or not OEM/third party ink, a printer potty or sliced bread.
 

palombian

Printer Master
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
1,440
Reaction score
1,671
Points
257
Location
Belgium
Printer Model
PRO-10, Pro9500II, MAXIFY
Excuse me, but based on the Precision Colors site a set of 8 3th party and 4 OEM inks + 12 one-time chips is USD 380.
Add to this shipping to MyUS, the MyUS fee, shipping to Europe, custom duty and VAT and I am at least at € 40 per cartridge.

PFI-1000 OEM carts are € 42.50 at a well known on-line ink shop here. Shipping € 4.95 delivered next day.

For the PRO-10 this route can still be considered.
Buy R locally, then 9 x 4 oz = USD 135, estimate USD 10 shipment and about 50-60% for MyUS, VAT etc with the high EUR rate that makes € 180-200 for 1l of ink or € 0,18-0.20 per ml.
PGI-72 is €10,75 for 14ml, so Precision Colors is still 4 times cheaper and the inks are very good.

Until end of this year octoinkjet.co.uk is about two thirds of PC but consider replacing 2 or 3 with OEM on glossy or luster paper.
 
Last edited:

mikling

Printer VIP
Platinum Printer Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
3,178
Reaction score
1,438
Points
313
Location
Toronto, Canada
Pro-10 has a resetter. Why a comparison? This simply does not make sense. I said, if there is a resetter USE it. End of story there. Where there is no resetter, then it is a different matter and that is when all kinds of modeling AND tests must take place to see where the sensible solution is in one's own situation.

Again, it is totally pointless comparing a machine a situation to one without a resetter.

Pricing in the EU is unto itself and its own taxes.

You got your machines with resetter and there will be people who will not have access to machines with resetters. So until you bring out the FACTS. measured then it is.

Yes, I do my house testing. But before refuting, bring out your measured testing forward rather than dodging the issue as always and bring your science out as well and the modelling and simulations.
 

palombian

Printer Master
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
1,440
Reaction score
1,671
Points
257
Location
Belgium
Printer Model
PRO-10, Pro9500II, MAXIFY
Instead of arguing who is right I prefer to know if disabling ink monitoring on Canon printers has disadvantages other than not knowing the ink level.
Will the printer do more cleaning cycles ?
As far as I know this has only be reported for the PRO-1.
The Maxify doesn't care (reason why ARC's are an acceptable solution), but it has ink flow monitoring raising an error.

Since one time chips for the PRO-1000 cost nearly as much as the refill ink, and there is no flushing after replacing the cartridges, why not topping up regularly ?
Or does the PRO-1000 penalizes disabling ink monitoring ?

Even if the PRO-300 accepts ink monitor disabling without revenge actions, there is still the visibility of the ink level to solve. If this printer does not purge more ink as it's predecessors, weighing the carts after some time is a viable solution (and always better than the domino effect).
Hope this scenario will work...
 

Artur5

Printer Master
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
510
Reaction score
554
Points
228
Printer Model
Canon Maxify 5150,Canon Pro10s
But on the Pro300, every time you remove the carts to check the weight, in all logic the printer will perform an automated purge/cleaning cycle, as any Canon model where the carts. sit on top of the printhead.
Really, I don't see the point on disabling ink monitoring on these printers. Too many hassles, too much ink wasted and very risky for the printhead.
Printers with huge stationary cartridges are another story.
 

stratman

Printer VIP
Platinum Printer Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
7,361
Reaction score
5,510
Points
373
Location
USA
Printer Model
Canon MB5120, Pencil
As far as I know this has only be reported for the PRO-1.
Known or reported for any or all printers? I don't know about actual measurements before and after disabling ink monitoring for other Canon printer models, but, more than one person has reported their belief of increased maintenance cycles after disabling monitoring.

Didn't @mikling report his direct observations on this phenomena years ago?
 
Top