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MP640
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Looking forward to your thoughts... </reminder>joseph1949 said:
Refill after flushing cartridge
- Thread starter MP640
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joseph1949
Getting Fingers Dirty
To: all, especially MP640
After reading the replies on this thread and threads elsewhere here are my thoughts on flushing carts: (I have not flushed a cart. I hope I will not have to flush a cart for a good long while.)
Note: My intention is to think like a medical doctorfirst, do no harm!!!!!
The safest or safer ways to flush a cart:
1. Use distilled water for the entire flushing procedure.
2. If you use a cleaning solution and/or tap water the final flush should be with distilled water. You may need to flush more than once.
3. All liquids should be at room temperature (80 F). Refrigerated distilled water will not work as fast and distilled water above 100 F may harm the cart. You need to be gentle with the cart. If you are not gentle with the cart you may reduce the useful life of the cart.
4. One of the reasons for flushing a cart is because the cart is clogged. Question: how do you know that a cart is clogged? If you get a bad print or a bad nozzle test you may think a cart is clogged. Question: is there a test to see if a cart is clogged? Yes, no, maybe. Here is one procedure to see if a cart is clogged:
Note: because of the ways that carts are built the procedure is not foolproof.
The procedure is based on the assumption that you are using the top fill method to fill carts. If you are using the german method I am not sure what method you can use to check for a clogged cart.
The procedure (such as it is):
A. Fill the cart with ink.
B. Cover the fill hole. Make sure the plug is providing a good seal.
C. Remove the cap from the ink outlet and the tape (if any) from the air vent. Check to see if ink is leaking from the outlet. If there is no ink leaking from the outlet go to step #D. If you have a few drops from the outlet this is O.K. The leakage should stop within a few drops. If not, you probably have a bad seal. You will need to repair/replace the plug. After the leakage has stopped you can proceed to step #D.
D. With no sign of leakage and the cart in the horizontal position (as it is in the print head) remove the plug. If the cart is not clogged ink should flow freely from the ink outlet. If the cart is clogged ink will not flow freely. Or there will be no ink coming from the outlet. You can check what a free flowing cart should look like by performing this procedure on a cart that is performing properly. I would catch the ink so you can reuse the ink (assuming the cart is clean).
5. You can back-flush the cart by turning the cart upside down and run water (no more than 80 F) into the ink outlet. The water should be at very low pressure (remember, do no harm!). The water will have to travel a torturous path to leave the cart via the fill hole. And yes the water can also leave by the air vent. Hopefully the air vent will not be clogged by this back-flushing. You can blow into the air vent to eliminate any clogging problems. I think back-flushing is O.K. if done correctly, but I feel it is safer to flush out the cart using the top fill hole as the inlet opening for the flushing and not the outlet (back-flushing)your call!!!!
6. If you need to blow out an air vent, ink outlet, etc. please use only your lung pressure and not by artificial means (no air tank!!!!!).
7. If you think that you need to loosen debris from inside the cart you can gently rap the cart on a solid object. Do not let the ink outlet come into contact with a solid object. You should cover the ink outlet with an orange cap before rapping the cart against an object. You do not want to damage the ink outlet. If you do, bad things will happen like leakage inside the cartbig time!!!!!! I would use a toothbrush to tap on the cart, especially around the ink outlet. Do this gently, please.
8. After you have flushed out the cart you can use the paper towel method to dry the cart. All you do is create a narrow tip on the towel and place (gently) the tip against the ink outlet. The tip will wick the moisture from the cart in short order. You can speed-up the process by placing the cart and towel on a propped-up board (a cutting board would do nicely) at a 45 degree or greater angle. You can use rubber bands to hold the cart and paper towel against the board.
On a thread a master says that if you are in hurry it is O.K. to dry out a cart by placing the cart in a 170 F oven!!!!!!! The master says it would be wise to check the oven temperature with an accurate oven thermometer. If you are a newbie please do not do this. I see too many problems with this method. If you are a master please try this method with one cart. It would be wise to keep track of the cart for future reference.
9. Up to this point I have not gone into any detail on how to flush a cart (excluding my take on back flushing). The following is my take on how to flush a cart in the safest manner possible:
A. The top fill hole should be 5/32 and no bigger. The 5/32 hole is the size for most plugs. Check your plug for the correct size hole. The smallest hole would be around 3/32. This hole size would be just big enough to fit the fill needle. Because of surface tension or whatever the 3/32 hole may not let the water drain from the cart in a timely manner. You could place a toothpick in the fill hole to break the surface tension. Be careful not to lose the toothpick to the reservoir.
B. Place the cart into a 5 cups/1.2 L (or larger) plastic container. Pour distilled water into the container. The water should just cover the cart. You can use tap water if you like. It would be cheaper. Slowly move the water around the cart. Remove the water, add water, and repeat process until the water is clear. This is a messy process at best. One could fill the container with water and submerge the cart into the container so as to cover the fill hole. Wait for the water to fill the cart. After the cart fills with water remove the cart and drain the water from the cart. Remove the water from the container and fill with flesh water. Repeat the process until the water is clear. Another way is to use hot glue to glue the cart to the bottom of container. Pour water into the container (just enough to cover the cart) and move the water around the cart. Remove the water from the cart and the container. Repeat process until the water is clear. You can detach the cart from the bottom of the container by removing all water from the container and add a small amount of isopropyl alcohol to the container. Move the alcohol around the container. Do this slowly. Take your time. It would be best that you get no alcohol on the cart. The alcohol should do no harm to the cart, but if alcohol gets into or on the cart the flushing outcome could be compromise. I would wait at least five minutes before trying to remove the cart from the bottom of the container. It should take only a light tug to loosen the cart. You can remove the glue from the cart as soon as you free the cart from the bottom of the cart. Caution: If you use tap water please use distilled water as the final flush. I would do this a number of timesbetter safe than sorry!!!!!
Note: I see some hands. You question is why not run water over the fill hole (5/32) by way of the kitchen faucet. You can do this, but the process is messy even if you build an apparatus to facilitate the flushing. Also, I believe that my container method is safer than the running water method. Either method is O.K. Just use low water pressure for the running water method.
C. What if you flush the cart and you still think the cart needs additional flushing. You can do the following: (You could keep using the container method or the running water method to flush the cart, but I believe at this point in the time you would just be spinning your wheels.)
1. Cover the air vent with tape. Cover the ink outlet with an orange cap.
2. Fill the cart with distilled water (80F to 100F) and plug the fill hole.
3. Place the cart in the upper level (higher is better) of a kitchen cabinet. You will need to be sure the cart stays in the horizontal position for as long as the cart is in the cabinet. In other words do not disturb the cart!!!!!!! The reason for placing the cart in the upper levels of a cabinet is because hot air rises. The hot air will keep the water in the cart at a temperature that will help to dissolve anything that is clogging the cart or keeping the cart from being cleaned.
I would let the cart stay in the cabinet for at least a week. At the end of the week I would see if the cart is still clogged/not clean. If the cart is still clogged/not clean remove the old water and replace with warm distilled water. Place the cart in the upper level of the cabinet and wait for another week. Check on cart again and repeat process until the cart is not clogged or the cart is clean.
You can use a cleaning solution (i.e. Windex), but I believe the distilled water is safer. It just takes longer. As before, if you use a cleaning solution you should final flush with distilled water.
I hope the above will be some help in flushing a cart. Please feel free to ask questions!!!!
Thank you.
After reading the replies on this thread and threads elsewhere here are my thoughts on flushing carts: (I have not flushed a cart. I hope I will not have to flush a cart for a good long while.)
Note: My intention is to think like a medical doctorfirst, do no harm!!!!!
The safest or safer ways to flush a cart:
1. Use distilled water for the entire flushing procedure.
2. If you use a cleaning solution and/or tap water the final flush should be with distilled water. You may need to flush more than once.
3. All liquids should be at room temperature (80 F). Refrigerated distilled water will not work as fast and distilled water above 100 F may harm the cart. You need to be gentle with the cart. If you are not gentle with the cart you may reduce the useful life of the cart.
4. One of the reasons for flushing a cart is because the cart is clogged. Question: how do you know that a cart is clogged? If you get a bad print or a bad nozzle test you may think a cart is clogged. Question: is there a test to see if a cart is clogged? Yes, no, maybe. Here is one procedure to see if a cart is clogged:
Note: because of the ways that carts are built the procedure is not foolproof.
The procedure is based on the assumption that you are using the top fill method to fill carts. If you are using the german method I am not sure what method you can use to check for a clogged cart.
The procedure (such as it is):
A. Fill the cart with ink.
B. Cover the fill hole. Make sure the plug is providing a good seal.
C. Remove the cap from the ink outlet and the tape (if any) from the air vent. Check to see if ink is leaking from the outlet. If there is no ink leaking from the outlet go to step #D. If you have a few drops from the outlet this is O.K. The leakage should stop within a few drops. If not, you probably have a bad seal. You will need to repair/replace the plug. After the leakage has stopped you can proceed to step #D.
D. With no sign of leakage and the cart in the horizontal position (as it is in the print head) remove the plug. If the cart is not clogged ink should flow freely from the ink outlet. If the cart is clogged ink will not flow freely. Or there will be no ink coming from the outlet. You can check what a free flowing cart should look like by performing this procedure on a cart that is performing properly. I would catch the ink so you can reuse the ink (assuming the cart is clean).
5. You can back-flush the cart by turning the cart upside down and run water (no more than 80 F) into the ink outlet. The water should be at very low pressure (remember, do no harm!). The water will have to travel a torturous path to leave the cart via the fill hole. And yes the water can also leave by the air vent. Hopefully the air vent will not be clogged by this back-flushing. You can blow into the air vent to eliminate any clogging problems. I think back-flushing is O.K. if done correctly, but I feel it is safer to flush out the cart using the top fill hole as the inlet opening for the flushing and not the outlet (back-flushing)your call!!!!
6. If you need to blow out an air vent, ink outlet, etc. please use only your lung pressure and not by artificial means (no air tank!!!!!).
7. If you think that you need to loosen debris from inside the cart you can gently rap the cart on a solid object. Do not let the ink outlet come into contact with a solid object. You should cover the ink outlet with an orange cap before rapping the cart against an object. You do not want to damage the ink outlet. If you do, bad things will happen like leakage inside the cartbig time!!!!!! I would use a toothbrush to tap on the cart, especially around the ink outlet. Do this gently, please.
8. After you have flushed out the cart you can use the paper towel method to dry the cart. All you do is create a narrow tip on the towel and place (gently) the tip against the ink outlet. The tip will wick the moisture from the cart in short order. You can speed-up the process by placing the cart and towel on a propped-up board (a cutting board would do nicely) at a 45 degree or greater angle. You can use rubber bands to hold the cart and paper towel against the board.
On a thread a master says that if you are in hurry it is O.K. to dry out a cart by placing the cart in a 170 F oven!!!!!!! The master says it would be wise to check the oven temperature with an accurate oven thermometer. If you are a newbie please do not do this. I see too many problems with this method. If you are a master please try this method with one cart. It would be wise to keep track of the cart for future reference.
9. Up to this point I have not gone into any detail on how to flush a cart (excluding my take on back flushing). The following is my take on how to flush a cart in the safest manner possible:
A. The top fill hole should be 5/32 and no bigger. The 5/32 hole is the size for most plugs. Check your plug for the correct size hole. The smallest hole would be around 3/32. This hole size would be just big enough to fit the fill needle. Because of surface tension or whatever the 3/32 hole may not let the water drain from the cart in a timely manner. You could place a toothpick in the fill hole to break the surface tension. Be careful not to lose the toothpick to the reservoir.
B. Place the cart into a 5 cups/1.2 L (or larger) plastic container. Pour distilled water into the container. The water should just cover the cart. You can use tap water if you like. It would be cheaper. Slowly move the water around the cart. Remove the water, add water, and repeat process until the water is clear. This is a messy process at best. One could fill the container with water and submerge the cart into the container so as to cover the fill hole. Wait for the water to fill the cart. After the cart fills with water remove the cart and drain the water from the cart. Remove the water from the container and fill with flesh water. Repeat the process until the water is clear. Another way is to use hot glue to glue the cart to the bottom of container. Pour water into the container (just enough to cover the cart) and move the water around the cart. Remove the water from the cart and the container. Repeat process until the water is clear. You can detach the cart from the bottom of the container by removing all water from the container and add a small amount of isopropyl alcohol to the container. Move the alcohol around the container. Do this slowly. Take your time. It would be best that you get no alcohol on the cart. The alcohol should do no harm to the cart, but if alcohol gets into or on the cart the flushing outcome could be compromise. I would wait at least five minutes before trying to remove the cart from the bottom of the container. It should take only a light tug to loosen the cart. You can remove the glue from the cart as soon as you free the cart from the bottom of the cart. Caution: If you use tap water please use distilled water as the final flush. I would do this a number of timesbetter safe than sorry!!!!!
Note: I see some hands. You question is why not run water over the fill hole (5/32) by way of the kitchen faucet. You can do this, but the process is messy even if you build an apparatus to facilitate the flushing. Also, I believe that my container method is safer than the running water method. Either method is O.K. Just use low water pressure for the running water method.
C. What if you flush the cart and you still think the cart needs additional flushing. You can do the following: (You could keep using the container method or the running water method to flush the cart, but I believe at this point in the time you would just be spinning your wheels.)
1. Cover the air vent with tape. Cover the ink outlet with an orange cap.
2. Fill the cart with distilled water (80F to 100F) and plug the fill hole.
3. Place the cart in the upper level (higher is better) of a kitchen cabinet. You will need to be sure the cart stays in the horizontal position for as long as the cart is in the cabinet. In other words do not disturb the cart!!!!!!! The reason for placing the cart in the upper levels of a cabinet is because hot air rises. The hot air will keep the water in the cart at a temperature that will help to dissolve anything that is clogging the cart or keeping the cart from being cleaned.
I would let the cart stay in the cabinet for at least a week. At the end of the week I would see if the cart is still clogged/not clean. If the cart is still clogged/not clean remove the old water and replace with warm distilled water. Place the cart in the upper level of the cabinet and wait for another week. Check on cart again and repeat process until the cart is not clogged or the cart is clean.
You can use a cleaning solution (i.e. Windex), but I believe the distilled water is safer. It just takes longer. As before, if you use a cleaning solution you should final flush with distilled water.
I hope the above will be some help in flushing a cart. Please feel free to ask questions!!!!
Thank you.
Darth
Getting Fingers Dirty
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I just tried the suction (Freedom) method to fill a cli-8 cart using the Octoinkjet cart for purging, and couldn't seem to get a good seal. Probably on the air vent. I used scotch tape and put my finger on top of it, but I had to pull the plunger many times and finally got the reservoir full. I thought this might overcome my problem of getting the sponge to absorb the ink, and it kind of did, but I find it kind of messy. I think I will stick with the German method, and wait until I can get some distilled water and propylene glycol. I can find the propylene glycol as RV (pink) antifreeze.
ThrillaMozilla
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You can't even see the sponge. You probably just ran water straight along the bottom of the sponge and straight out through the filter, so you just washed the outlet filter.MP640 said:
The sponge is probably still saturated with water. No wonder it doesn't absorb ink. You have to wick the water out before you can replace it with ink. You even mentioned the method yourself.MP640 said:
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When using the Freedom refill method it is very important that the whole system is airtight. I just bought two sets of purging clips for "old" and "new" Canon cartridges from Octoink, and they work well.Darth wrote:
Scotch tape is not suitable for sealing the vent, and if the cartridge has previously been refilled using the German method, the refill hole must also be sealed. A much better seal is provided by this aluminium tape: http://www.octoink.co.uk/products/Aluminium-Tape-Strip.html , or you could use Blu-tac or a similar product for sealing the vent.
Non-toxic anti freeze on propylene glycol basis might contain additives that make it unsuitable for use in pharmacist's conditioning and cleaning fluids. According to pharmacist you can replace the 3% propylene glycol with 2% glycerol (=glycerine) if you cannot obtain propylene glycol.
The CLI-8 cartridges are transparent, so there is no problems in seeing what is going on inside the cartridge
The problems with the sponges not absorbing ink could also be caused by the sponges being too dry. Compare a rag: A rag that is completely dry is difficult to get to absorb water, a slightly moist rag absorbs water readily. So try drying the sponges less, it is perfectly OK to leave them slightly moist; the small amount of water will not dilute the ink enough to cause a noticeable colour shift.
Darth
Getting Fingers Dirty
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The anti freeze contains Ethyl Alcohol (64-17-5), Propylene Glycol (57-55-6), Water (7732-18-5), Potassium Phosphate (7758-11-4), Colorant (2611-82-7), Fragrance (126-90-9). I don't see anything that will interfere with only 3% conditioning fluid.PeterBJ said:
Oh BTW, the cart that I tried with the Freedom method did not have the hole from the German method, but the air vent was obviously leaking with the scotch tape.
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I'm not sure this is correct. The ethyl alcohol, water, colourant, and fragrance may not interfere with the use in a conditioning fluid, but what about the potassium phosphate? Also how much water is added?
Many ready-to-use anti-freezes contain roughly a 50/50 mix of water and glycol plus some additives, so how much of the antifreeze should you actually use to get a reconditioning solution that contains 3% propylene glycol, and can you be 100% sure that the additives in the antifreeze will not harm the cartridges and the print head? I wouldn't use that anti-freeze in preparing the conditioning solution.
Darth
Getting Fingers Dirty
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I was planing to use only about 3% of the whole antifreeze in distilled water. I happen to know that the main ingredient is the Propylene Glycol, and since this is the part in the conditioning fluid that doesn't evaporate, it really doesn't need much. However, you have me worried about the Potassium Phosphate, which I believe is an anti rust agent (changing the surface of metal to a Phosphate coating). Good for coating fire arms but probably not good for the print head. Oh well, trying to find something that I already had on hand.PeterBJ said:
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If you cannot obtain propylene glycol in a pharmaceutical or food grade, I suggest looking for glycerine instead.
I think the potassium phosphate is a corrosion inhibitor. The use of a such inhibitor is very important if you have dissimilar metals in contact with water. Modern cars have an aluminium cylinder head and most likely a brass radiator. Without the corrosion inhibitor, the aluminium would quickly corrode.
I think the potassium phosphate is a corrosion inhibitor. The use of a such inhibitor is very important if you have dissimilar metals in contact with water. Modern cars have an aluminium cylinder head and most likely a brass radiator. Without the corrosion inhibitor, the aluminium would quickly corrode.
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