questions about patents

[canonfodder]

The other thing to also remember is that you can blatantly copy a patented product for personal use. Even electronic circuits. That is perfectly OK. However, the sale of the item for commercial gain is however not allowed. Thus any idea copied on the forum is OK for anyone to use as long as it is for personal use.

Not really so, that you can, "blatantly copy a patented product for personal use", but that is a very common myth. Cases of pursuit against one individual making one item really are rather rare, but a case will be brought against an individual with a single item offense if very large dollar value is involved.

Patents issued by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office confer upon the patent holder "the right to exclude others from making, using or selling the invention throughout the United States and its territories and possessions".

That means even the making of one copy. There is no provision or even mention in the law that excuses small quantity or personal use. Note that the patent owner does not specifically have the right to make the item covered. He only has a "right to exclude.....". The right to make might be incumbered by other patents covering some portion(s) of his item, therefore excluding him from making what appears to be his own.

See the website http://www.bitlaw.com/patent/rights.html for a simple, accurate, discussion of this subject.

On the whole, patent law is both simple and complex at the same time, and there are many myths and too much hearsay about the law. It is a challenge to accurately read and completely comprehend the claims of a patent. Patent attorneys are paid well to do that. The simplest claim is the broadest claim, as it covers any item which contains its minimal components or processes, no matter how more complex the would be competitor might be.

 

[WhiteDog]

Mikling, I think you are wrong about the personal use exemption. A copy is a copy. A patent confers protection on the concept and method, and is not restricted to profit-making objectives. I was surprised to find this a while ago. This rule bars a lot of garage tinkering which goes on anyway. Reverse engineering is a gray area, including how hard it is to pull it off. I think the CLI-8 chips are intentionally complex so that Canon can nail anyone with a solution by claiming that you have to be dedicated hacker with bad motives even to try. Be careful out there.

 

[mikling]

If this is the case then how can one advance the art if one cannot replicate the current art for investigative purposes.

 

[WhiteDog]

If the current art is the patented solution, then it is protected for the life of the patent and any additions or extensions. So you are stuck. Basically the law takes the view that if you do not have a licence or permission from the patent holder to play with their ideas, you must go in a totally different direction or give up. That's what you would expect for protection if you held a patent. I get ticked about the patenting of molecules and genes which are already in our bodies, and yet we can't fool with some of them. Now that s going too far.

 

[Xalky]

Patents are infringed upon all the time. If you think you have a good idea and you haven't seen it out there and your serious about making some $$$, just build it and sell it. Patents are a joke. The chances of some entity calling you on a patent infringement are real low unless this thing begins to sell in the millions of dollars and puts you on the road to financial independance. Certainly, don't let it stop you from dreams of success.

 

[WhiteDog]

Xalky, we can all go our own way with this. But remember the cases of the high school students who were sued by the music vendors for downloading tunes. With your attitude you run the risk, though it may be small, of being the example case intended as a message to all the others doing the same thing. Then if you borrow money to finance a fraud you can be nailed for commercial and bank fraud too. If you use the internet to communicate with anyone about it then it's a federal case of wire fraud. I can tell you that these things happen more often than you ever hear about, and I will not tell you precisely how I know, but let's say it is very personal.

What do you think all those in-house lawyers do with their time? And last night I read that infringment searches are being automated so the legal staff can sit down in the morning and decide who they are going to erase next. You may even have trouble finding a defence lawyer, because the case law is pretty well settled on this, and you will pay some guy $5,000 to get you out of it with a consent dismissal and a promise to desist.

 

[panos]

I was also reading a text from a website dealing with copyrighted stuff (not patents but read on, its relevant) which said that lawyers are usually looking for the "little guy" because they are an easier prey than larger companies.

 

[Xalky]

Xalky, we can all go our own way with this. But remember the cases of the high school students who were sued by the music vendors for downloading tunes.

:/People are still downloading free tunes, it can't be stopped. If they can't get it from a public site, they'll get it from thier friends. If the music companies don't want it happening then they should make it more affordable to buy music.

With your attitude you run the risk, though it may be small, of being the example case intended as a message to all the others doing the same thing.

Hey, I'm not infringing any patents, nor do i intend to. I have a great day job. My days of dreaming about the millions I could make, with the right idea, are behind me.

Let me just suffice it to say that all this big brother talk is exactly what big brother wants you to believe to be true. If big brother was so bad, he wouldn't be barking so loudly, instead he'd just wield his big powerful stick. Where the hell has the free enterprising spirit gone in this country. It's sad...really sad.

As for me, I still believe in the American dream. And I'll be damned if someone's gonna try to squash mine.

Xalky

 

[WhiteDog]

Xalky, you are not taking into account the American Dream on the other side of your appropriation. Historically the US Patent Office was one of the bastions of the American Dream, and provided some level of security and risk reduction for the capital risked in American-Dream-Type ventures. How times change.

 

[Xalky]

Xalky, you are not taking into account the American Dream on the other side of your appropriation. Historically the US Patent Office was one of the bastions of the American Dream, and provided some level of security and risk reduction for the capital risked in American-Dream-Type ventures. How times change.

WhiteDog:
I'd like to apologize for my little rant yesterday. My wife got some uncertain medical news and my uncle past away. in the same day.

You're right,The patent office is there for a good reason. The problem is that it's gotten so laden in red tape that the average US citizen doesn't have one shot in a million at getting his patent without being ripped off. The patent pending process, many times, is the way by which your ideas get stolen. Once you apply for a patent, it gets exposed to in the public domain for everyone to see. The patent process is severely broken. Like most everything, in our federal gov't. unles you're a specialized attorney, you aint gettin nothin done with that beurocracy.

Xalky