1. Dismiss Notice
  2. Picture Of The Week (POW) Information and Submissions
    CLICK HERE!
    (if you are logged in, this notice can be dismissed using the "x" to the top right of the notice)

    Dismiss Notice
  3. Official PK Poll: Is there any future in refilling?
    CLICK HERE!
    (if you are logged in, this notice can be dismissed using the "x" to the top right of the notice)

    Dismiss Notice
  4. PK Featured Thread: Health & Safety and 3D Printing.
    CLICK HERE!
    (if you are logged in, this notice can be dismissed using the "x" to the top right of the notice)

    Dismiss Notice

Profiling Printer with OCP Ink

Discussion in 'Everything Else InkJet Printer Related' started by wcandrews@sccoast.net, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. Feb 22, 2011
    stratman

    stratman Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,299
    Likes Received:
    4,412
    Trophy Points:
    373
    Location:
    USA
    Printer Model:
    Canon MP830, Pencil
    Number 4 does not make sense to me if number 1 is correct.

    The image you use to profile should be the best possible one. Whether it's a store bought standardized target or the image the application requires you to print out as the target image, the idea is to profile on the most accurate image you can print with your printer and paper. If there is an actual difference in the image quality following a "curing" of drying for 3 days, then you use that 3 day cured image.

    You use the best quality image available to get the best profile possible. If the image is "cured" in one minute or 10 days, ie no more color shifting, than that's the image that should be used.

    Please explain more on your thought processes and results because intuitively it doesn't make sense to me.
     
  2. Feb 23, 2011
    l_d_allan

    l_d_allan Fan of Printing

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2011
    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    64
    Location:
    Colorado Springs, CO
    I'm curious how one would do that.

    Would the following be an approach:
    * Print out patches with all the 0 & 255 combinations:
    - 0, 0, 0
    - 0, 0, 255
    - 0, 255, 0
    - 0, 255, 255
    - 255, 0, 0
    - 255, 0, 255
    - 255, 255, 0
    - 255, 255, 255

    * Measure the patches with a spectro, and evaluate.

    * Perhaps sum the variances, with lower being better?

    * Use the same paper and compare to oem ink.

    BTW, I'm one of the OCP ink users, but have no connection with R-Jet Tek. I do happen to like in the same city where they are located. It seems like good ink, but I haven't used any other non-oem, so I have no basis of comparison. Ounce for ounce, it does seem less expensive if you print enough to justify getting 16 oz at a time.
     
  3. Feb 23, 2011
    l_d_allan

    l_d_allan Fan of Printing

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2011
    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    64
    Location:
    Colorado Springs, CO
    I think wcandrews is correct, although it does seem counter-intuitive. By using the "3 day cured print" for the profile target, you could get the equivalent of "double profiling" where both the application and the printer are managing color.

    It does make me wonder if this influences the quality when you have profile made by a distant vendor, and send them your print via snail-mail. That takes several days.
     
  4. Feb 23, 2011
    wcandrews@sccoast.net

    wcandrews@sccoast.net Getting Fingers Dirty

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2010
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Im sorry if sharing my work and conclusions offended you. I only talk about what I have actually tested. The only ink I have to test is OCP. If sharing this work with the forum is a problem, Ill make this my last posting.

    Good Luck,
    Wil
     
  5. Feb 23, 2011
    on30trainman

    on30trainman Printer Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2006
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA area
    Wil,
    Don't stop posting. I switched to OCP ink a few months ago and I am a "fan". No one can accuse me of being a OCP spammer since I have been on this forum for many years and have used Canon OEM, Hobbicolors and Image Specialists inks besides OCP. I plan to do my non-scientific fading test later in the year when the sunshine is longer and more intense. Pharmacist should easily be able to obtain OCP ink since it comes from Germany but the minimum quantities from there may be large as we have to buy here in the US.

    Steve W.
     
  6. Feb 23, 2011
    RogerB

    RogerB Print Addict

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    313
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    S.E. England
    Printer Model:
    Epson Pro3880
    Hi Wil,

    I'm sure nobody on the forum objects to you sharing your experience. For me, the only problem is that your conclusions are based on your visual assessment of certain prints - one looks "better" than another. Being entirely subjective, this is not an easy thing to share with other members. If you are talking about a change in colour gamut or other rendering properies, then some objective assessments would be appreciated.

    Comparisons of colour profiles are not difficult, given the appropriate software, and I am sure that such objective comparisons would be of interest to the forum members. If you are unable to do such comparisons yourself I am sure there are other forum participators (including me) that would be happy to do them, for everyone's benefit.

    Incidentally, without wishng to dampen everyone's enthusiasm about OCP inks and the Pro 9000 in general, the Aardenberg Imaging data for this printer, using OEM (dye) ink and microporus paper, does not give a good longevity rating. Typically it's 10x worse than the worst printer/ink/paper combinations using pigment ink. Results are much better using a swellable coating paper (Ilford Classic), but this type of paper is becoming more and more difficult to obtain.

    Before anyone protests about longevity, I know that there are millions of prints on people's walls/fridges/desks from dye-ink printers that are still "as good as new". If you are among the people that have these prints then forget about "longevity". The academic requirements for "archival" prints are much more stringent than the average user's requirements. But don't expect any prints from the Pro 9000, with OEM or OCP ink, to be unchanged in 30 years time.
     
  7. Feb 23, 2011
    stratman

    stratman Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,299
    Likes Received:
    4,412
    Trophy Points:
    373
    Location:
    USA
    Printer Model:
    Canon MP830, Pencil
    Thinking more on profiling an "uncured" target image...

    If you profile using the cured image then the resultant profile will instruct for prints that resemble fully cured images straight from the printer that then themselves cure. This would effect a "double-curing" on the final image and the final dry and cured image will appear different.

    The idea then is to use a target image that is dry to prevent smearing when scanning and to profile this dry target image ASAP in the curing process as this will resemble closest to what the printer is capable of (its limitations) and not the additive effects of time on ink and paper resulting from the curing process.

    I'm trying to see the process here and still not sure I buy it yet. What do the spectrophotometer instructions say?
     
  8. Feb 23, 2011
    martin0reg

    martin0reg Printer Master

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    737
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Germany Ruhrgebiet
    A simple comparison would help:
    - canon ink on canon paper and on a good third party paper
    - ocp ink on same canon paper and on the same third party paper
    - IS or hobbicolors or whatever ink on the same sort of paper

    Put the prints on a scanner, scan all prints with the same settings and let us see.

    Quality depends on the combination of printer-paper-ink.
    "Wider gamut" may be hard to distinguish from greater intensity or saturation...
     
  9. Feb 23, 2011
    RogerB

    RogerB Print Addict

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    313
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    S.E. England
    Printer Model:
    Epson Pro3880
    The profile will simply use the measurement of the target to determine how the printer reproduces colour. If you measure the target within minutes of printing it, subsequent prints using the profile should look "correct" within minutes of printing. If they change with time, then they will no longer be correct.

    The profiling process assumes that the target measurements are representative of the final print properties. Any intermediate stages are irrelevant. The profiling software has no idea what the printed target looks like straight from the printer. You should not use measurements of transient conditions for generating profiles.

    Take the extreme case of sublimation printing. The printer deposits ink onto a sheet of transfer paper. The paper is then heated in contact with the final substrate; the ink sublimes and is taken up by the substrate. The finished substrate is what has to be measured for a profile. The appearance of the image on the transfer paper is transient and irrelevant. The profile has to be based on the end-to-end process, even if the ends are just time between leaving the printer and reaching a stable condition.
     
  10. Feb 23, 2011
    RMM

    RMM Fan of Printing

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    Utah, USA
    Every guide I've ever seen said that it is best to have a fully dry profile target, which makes the most sense to me.

    By profiling before the target is really dry you may get colors that are more "pleasing" to your eye, but I can't see how they could possibly be more accurate.
     

Share This Page