Problems with CYAN, Ink starvation??? -ip4300

[websnail]

Scaled from the photo, the ink level looks to be only 1 inch above the table. IF my assumptions are true, the ink is not too high, rather it could be too low and forcing air-leak-at-the-seal problems. Narminea did say his CIS came with soft silicone seals to add to the original seals.

Could well be true... and you're right about the pressure from smaller bottle..

Of course all my assumptions about how this CIS operates could be totally wrong. I just hope Narmenia tries my elevation suggestion and your elevation suggestion.

Me too... it never hurts to be sure...

I am troubled by his report that an OEM cyan cartridge did not bring the printer back to proper function. Perhaps that means the suggestions of bad print head are really true.

I've been there, seen that and it's a false negative... Chances are that a single cleaning routine and then 2 pages of high quality purge print will resolve the issue. That and allowing the OEM cartridge to sit for a few hours or even a day to let the system settle...

Thinking it through if the issue is indeed ink starvation that air bubbles will have gotten into the printhead which means they need to be coaxed out as above.

 

[narmenia]

ink level is around 1-inch (just a little over an inch) from the table surface
the CIS manual also indicates not to overfill the shorter tank.
so the level of ink should be fixed at 1-inch at all times and only the taller tank level changes.



********************************************************************
bad news canon wants me to send the whole printer... which is not possible bcoz they will realize that the ink monitoring has been dissabled and therefore voiding my warranty.

btw new printhead for ip4300 cost around 7,800 Philippine Pesos (USD $173)
LOCAL SRP for bnew ip4300 cost 6,750 Philippine Pesos (USD $150)

LOL!!!

Thank GOD for EBAY!!!
*sorry for the bad pics. i only managed to borrow a phone with camera. hehehe

 

[canonfodder]

Narmenia,

So glad you took and posted pictures. Now I can confirm that your CIS is the first commercial one that I have seen that can really control ink pressure.

Set up as shown, (and as you are instructed), the ink level is constant, but much lower than it has to be, with the result that the negative pressure of the delivered ink is greater than it has to be. The down side of the greater negative pressure is the increased chance of leakage at the cartridge seal, and the more work for the printhead in pumping up the ink.

I have stuck notes on one of your pictures to indicate the elevations and the pressures that will exist.
The "Air Pr. = -3"wc" indicates the negative pressure that hold up the ink in the cyan tank. The pressure will depend on the amount of ink in the main tank. If the ink is 1" lower, the air pressure will be at -2" water column, etc.

As ink is consumed, the ink level in the short tank will drop below 1" and a bit of air will be allowed to pass through the connecting tube into the main tank, letting its ink level drop, refilling the short tank back to its normal 1" level.



Your CIS does operate as I was thinking, and uses a form of Mariottes Bottle to keep the ink level in the shorter tank constant at about 1" elevation. The resulting pressure, where the tubing connects at the bottom of the main bottle, is +1" water column. The pressure in the ink tube going to the cartridge will be negative by the elevation difference between the table and the cartridge exit port/printhead ink input. I believe the iP4300 has the cartridge exit at about 3.6" higher than the table. This leaves the present ink pressure at -3.6" +1" = -2.6" water column. I would consider raising the ink tanks by 1.5", leaving the delivered ink pressure at -1.1" water column. The printhead is intended to operate at a negative pressure, and 1" or so is plenty.

With all that said, your problem may still be from some other cause. We won't know until you try some things. Pay attention to Websnail's comment about the extra cleaning and/or printing needed to clear some things up. I have seen an overpressure situation require a half page of single color purge to clear all the streaks out.

 

[narmenia]

OK thanks so much for your very detailed analysis...

So Ill just put something under the CIS bottles thats about 1 and inches? Correct?
I also have an ip3000 and ip1800 how much height do I need to add to the CIS bottles of these printers?

**************************

Just one more thing to ask. [about WARRANTY]

Due to using the CIS ink monitoring has been disabled on all cartridges
can buying NEW OEM cartridges restore ink monitoring? and will this fool canon if I send the whole printer unit for printhead warranty?

Thanks in Advance

 

[canonfodder]

I don't have the information needed to recommend the height for your other printers, however, you can figure out the height.

The object is to have the elevation of the ink in the short tanks be about 1 inch below the bottom of the cartridges in the printer. This means that for your CIS, the bottom of the ink tanks should be about 2 inches below the bottom of the cartridges.

It may take several measurements to determine the elevation of the cartridge bottoms in the printer. You want to learn how high the cartridge bottom is above the printer table or shelf. I would measure from the cartridge bottom up to the top of the printer, and then measure the distance from the table or shelf up to the top of the printer. The difference between the two measurements is obviously the height of the cartridge bottom above the table or shelf. Now, arrange the CIS tank bottom to be about 2 inches lower than that height.

Someone else will need to help with the warrantee question. I think the printer retains the information concerning the use of refilling or CIS, but I'm not at all sure.

 

[websnail]

INFORMATION
Printer: ip4300
C.I.S.: Multicolors C.I.S. (LOCAL - PHILIPPINEShttp://www.continuousink.com.ph/) (sponged) (working perfectly until now)
Printer age: around 7 months
Usage: Text - Heavy
Colored - Moderate
Photo - Light

Problem (NOW)
After a cleaning cycle, nozzle checks are OK.
but printing large pictures/text with cyan has problems
example
[url]http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/1366/97393277yu5.th.jpg[/url]
(printing whole cyan page)

Just one more variable to add to the equation... I know you opted to use a new cartridge and couldn't get that to work but I just wanted to relay something I tried today and got working successfully.

I had a printer much like yours, working fine for months aside from the issues I had with too much pressure (noted in another thread). These issues weren't affecting the Cyan however.

Anyway, to cut a long story short I sealed the exit port of the Cyan cartridge in question and drew a vacuum on it using a syringe and tube clamp.. Got it to as pure a vacuum as I could but noted there was still some ink "bubbles" in the spongeless part of the cartridge. So on a hunch I got a different Cyan cart already fitted with the necessary adaptor and swapped it over.. Primed it using the vacuum process again and then replaced in the printer.

Bear in mind that I had replaced the rubber and thin silicon gromment earlier to no effect... This swapping cartridges seemed to do the trick perfectly and it's now printing without repeating that pattern shown in your example above.


So, in summary, another possible cause would seem to be cloggation in the cartridges reducing ink flow and essentially starving the printhead. One key indicator I noticed was that ink flowed much slower in the lines compared to other colours and there was a distinct lack of flow back when I replaced cartridges after exposing the outlet port to air. There should have been a small back flow towards the reservoir but in the Cyan in this instance there was none.

I'm going to be repeating this process with a few other cartridges and CIS kits that have exhibited the same issue and will report back. Oh and these others are yellow so it seems it's a fairly generic issue as opposed to the Magenta pressure issue which was more ink specific.


Hope that helps.

 

[Smile]

Hmm I always said that the most easy method is to use vacuum to fill cartridges, it solves so many problems you can have afterwards in traditional fill methods that seem more easy at first.

 

[ROX]

narmenia- I have the same ciss- my father bought it in Philippines and brought it back to the US.

Your nozzle check pictures are exactly like mine- I got them when i started messing with the ink tanks by raising them higher then the printer head. They did not go away until i took the cartridges out and made sure there was no air in the tubes and re primed the cartridges. I also lowered the ink tank. I just leave it level on the same table the printer in on.

Your problem maybe also be a combination on over pressurizing the carts and clogged heads.

Let me know if you got your problem fixed...i know this was a while ago.