Pro-100 compared to Pro-10 color

martincregg

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I have been using a Pro-100 for around 18 months with Precision Color (PC) inks. I have just purchased a Pro-10 and done a test comparison using one of the well-known test images using the supplied Canon ink. I used Canon semi-gloss paper, Lightroom to print and set printer manages color. I also set both printers to Color/Intensity to Auto. All that to say, the only difference is the PC inks in the Pro-100.

Both printed images look great, but I notice that the skin tones from the Pro-100/PC inks are slightly redder than the pro-10. I would say the pro-10 look more natural and match my monitor quite well. Is this to be expected?
 

The Hat

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@martincregg, Your trying to match apples with oranges, firstly they are two different machines with different inks dye/pigment and coupled with that your comparing 3rd party inks to OEM inks, not exactly a fair comparison.

PC inks are a good match to OEM inks, but they are what they are, and you’ve been happy with them for 18 months, so I’d say they can hold their own in a dye compassion test like for like.

To answer you question the Pro 100 is great printer, but the Pro 10 will out shine it in most situations and I reckon your going to be very happy with your new machine, whether you use OEM or PC inks, both will give great longevity...

Tip: Please don’t try to use the Pro 10 as a Pro 100, because they are different machines that will run and behave differently, the Pro 10 will surprise you in how easy it is to maintain and refill and there is no Yello Gello to worry about...
 

Ink stained Fingers

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@martincregg - you are doing a visual assessment of the print outputs with your Canon printers, and you are quite happy with the outcome and the similarity of those. Your findings indicate that the color rendition of the PC inks are apperently pretty close to the genuine Canon inks which makes your life easy as long as you don't switch papers.
I did this - I looked up the icc-profiles PC is supplying for their inks on the RedRiver papers which they recommend very much , the gamut volumes - the total color range of printable colors do not vary very much between the Pro 10 and Pro 100, and their black levels are very close as well which creates the impression of overall contrast.
You are addressing skin colors , I did a little review of those and display a photo of a fashion model in a rather unusual mode - every image pixel has a RGB color, and all image pixels are placed into the RGB color space
Skintest RGB.jpg

The skin tones stretch along a diagonal line from RGB=0 at the left to RGB=255 at the top right corner,
so skin tones are not very much saturated. You can view the same data in the L*ab color space, the neutral axis (gray) stretches from the bottom to the top vertically , you get this view with the
same image
Skintest Lab.jpg

I'm switching to a different gamut viewer (for reasons of convenience and display options) and
overlay this pixel cloud with the PrecisionColor profiles for their UIltraProSatin for the Pro10 and Pro100 and their inks for the Pro 10/100 resp.
Skintest 3.jpg

The left part shows the pixel cloud of the portrait with the transparent gamut bodies, the right image
shows a cut of that 3D image at a lighter color - L*=70 - you see that the white pixels are rather far away from the gamut borders and both gamuts are pretty close together, all such skin tones can easily and correctly be printed with either the Pro 10 or Pro 100 - there are no 'out of gamut' colors.
And if you think that one printer tones the skin reds slightly different than the other printer you should be able to correct that with some color adjustments in the driver.
If you would start using other inks or other papers or both in combination the color rendition issue could become more complex and may require you to use custom icc-profiles - or heavier adjustments in the driver - but that's a different subject.
(The green line applies to the Pro 10 gamut, the red line to the Pro 100 gamut)
 
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Ink stained Fingers

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That's the same pixels of skin tones located in the color space as in the image above, I just changed their color to white for better visibility.
 

maximilian59

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@martincregg,
you have no color managed workflow, as you set it to printer manages color. So the driver is expecting the use of OEM inks. For the Pro-100 you have PC inks. They may be very near in color rendition, but are not the same. If PC inks would bring exactly the same colors to the print as Canon inks, they would not need own profiles.
The comparison from ink stained fingers also shows, that for the same paper different corrections are needed for the two printers. If you use PC inks you also need to use the profiles for PC inks to correct some of the differences.
So I think it is even more than comparing apples with oranges. It is more comparing apples with coconuts. Both are round and growing on trees.
 

BarryN

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@martincregg - you are doing a visual assessment of the print outputs with your Canon printers, and you are quite happy with the outcome and the similarity of those. Your findings indicate that the color rendition of the PC inks are apperently pretty close to the genuine Canon inks which makes your life easy as long as you don't switch papers.
I did this - I looked up the icc-profiles PC is supplying for their inks on the RedRiver papers which they recommend very much , the gamut volumes - the total color range of printable colors do not vary very much between the Pro 10 and Pro 100, and their black levels are very close as well which creates the impression of overall contrast.
You are addressing skin colors , I did a little review of those and display a photo of a fashion model in a rather unusual mode - every image pixel has a RGB color, and all image pixels are placed into the RGB color space
View attachment 7717
The skin tones stretch along a diagonal line from RGB=0 at the left to RGB=255 at the top right corner,
so skin tones are not very much saturated. You can view the same data in the L*ab color space, the neutral axis (gray) stretches from the bottom to the top vertically , you get this view with the
same image
View attachment 7718
I'm switching to a different gamut viewer (for reasons of convenience and display options) and
overlay this pixel cloud with the PrecisionColor profiles for their UIltraProSatin for the Pro10 and Pro100 and their inks for the Pro 10/100 resp.
View attachment 7719
The left part shows the pixel cloud of the portrait with the transparent gamut bodies, the right image
shows a cut of that 3D image at a lighter color - L*=70 - you see that the white pixels are rather far away from the gamut borders and both gamuts are pretty close together, all such skin tones can easily and correctly be printed with either the Pro 10 or Pro 100 - there are no 'out of gamut' colors.
And if you think that one printer tones the skin reds slightly different than the other printer you should be able to correct that with some color adjustments in the driver.
If you would start using other inks or other papers or both in combination the color rendition issue could become more complex and may require you to use custom icc-profiles - or heavier adjustments in the driver - but that's a different subject.
(The green line applies to the Pro 10 gamut, the red line to the Pro 100 gamut)
What is the gamut viewer you are using?
 

Ink stained Fingers

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What is the gamut viewer you are using?
Are you asking me ?
I'm using Monaco GamutWorks which came as part of the Monaco Profiling software suite, old software running on XP, the other software is a little Java script - ColorInspector 3D. Gamutworks let me overlay a gamut with an image in the *Lab color space, ColorInspector 3D just does display one image at a time but in the RGB or Lab color space, or other color spaces at your choice
 
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BarryN

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Yes, thank you.
 

jamesblackmon

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I think they are two different machines how can we compare them.
 
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