Printer vs Photoshop Manages Color when printing

[knblis]

I print color photos up to 8x10 with a Canon i960 from within Photoshop CS3 on a Windows XP Pro system. I regularly calibrate my monitor with Pantone's Eye-One Match system. Without exception, every tutorial I've read so far recommends letting Photoshop Manage Color when printing, being sure to turn off any color management and effects by the printer driver, and selecting the proper Printer Profile (in my case, the Canon i960 SPI for Canon Photo Paper Plus Glossy). I have followed these tutorials meticulously for Canon printers and yet my best color photos so far result when I let the Printer Manage Color and set the printer driver's Color Adjustment to Auto.

After having gone through this process dozens of times step-by-step, I must be overlooking something very basic, Perhaps it is my familiarity with the process that is blocking my ability to see what it is I'm missing.


Any insights would be appreciated.

 

[Smile]

Hmm sounds strange,

Did you have your printer profiled by somebody or yourself? or do you use Canon color profiles?

If you have profiles created for you printer than yes you should select "no color management" & "Photoshop Manage Color" & "Print Quality: Diffusion" & "Color/Intensity -set to None"

If you use Canon profiles it is only logical that auto gives you better prints - because canon uses this mode when they optimized their profiles anyway.

Remember printer and software settings must be the same when creating profiles and when using it later. Even program that you print from has significant impact.

 

[knblis]

I have not had my Canon i960 profiled and would use the Canon i960 SP1 profile when printing on Photo Paper Plus Glossy paper IF I let Photoshop Manage Color. What I'm saying is that I get better results if I select "Printer Manages Color" in Photoshop CS3 and select "Auto" for Color Adjustment under the printer dialog's Main tab.

In contrast, all the tutorials I've read on the subject recommend that Photoshop Manage Color when printing color photos and disable color management in the printer's dialog box. So to rephrase my question, can I get even better results if I select (in Photoshop CS3's print dialog) "Photoshop Manages Color" and select the Canon SP1 profile for Photo Paper Plus Glossy, then disable color management and effects in the printer dialog?

I am reading your reply to say that I should let Photoshop Manage Color only if I have created special profiles for my printer. Otherwise, if I am using the already-optimized profiles provided by Canon, I will get the best results by letting the "Printer Manage Color" and set Color Adjustment to Auto in the printer dialog. Is my understanding correct?

Many thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

[Smile]

I have not had my Canon i960 profiled and would use the Canon i960 SP1 profile when printing on Photo Paper Plus Glossy paper IF I let Photoshop Manage Color. What I'm saying is that I get better results if I select "Printer Manages Color" in Photoshop CS3 and select "Auto" for Color Adjustment under the printer dialog's Main tab.

In contrast, all the tutorials I've read on the subject recommend that Photoshop Manage Color when printing color photos and disable color management in the printer's dialog box. So to rephrase my question, can I get even better results if I select (in Photoshop CS3's print dialog) "Photoshop Manages Color" and select the Canon SP1 profile for Photo Paper Plus Glossy, then disable color management and effects in the printer dialog?

You should use the one that provides better prints and as far as I know Canon did not optimize their profiles for "Photoshop manages color" mode because not everyone has $300-$1000 price tag depending on which version of Photoshop you buy. This is valid for any third party app too.

It's like ink - nobody wants you to refill, so no printer manufacturer makes universal color profiles. Thats why custom color profiling is used.

I am reading your reply to say that I should let Photoshop Manage Color only if I have created special profiles for my printer. Otherwise, if I am using the already-optimized profiles provided by Canon, I will get the best results by letting the "Printer Manage Color" and set Color Adjustment to Auto in the printer dialog. Is my understanding correct?

Many thanks for taking the time to reply.

Yes you are correct.
Well if you use Canon profiles for Photo Paper Plus Glossy paper here what happens:

There a are two places how you can use a profiles with a printer in WinXP:
1. You set it in color management tab in you printer properties.
2. You disable color management in printer driver and remove any profiles in color management tab in you printer properties but select a profile when printing from application that supports color profiles. (if you let you application that is color aware like pphotoshop manage color and as a rule you diabled color management in printer driver its just stupid to select printer manages color because you allready disabled that in printer driver)

You could have a case of double profiling if you do not remove profiles in color management tab in you printer properties and let photoshop manage color specifying you paper profile.

Also try cheap but very good print program Qimage, it can print photos in auto mode, has various image enhancement algorithms etc. Prints better than photoshop with support for color profiles. Could you download the trial and check how the photos look?

 

[knblis]

Thanks. I'm beginning to understand this cryptic and confusing subject. The step I was missing when selecting "Photoshop Manages Color" was that I overlooked the Color Management tab of the i960's default properties. When I checked that tab, "Automatic" is selected which allows Windows to select the best profile from among the list of five profiles associated with the Canon i960 printer.

From your reply, I would conclude that if I intend to let Photoshop Manage Color, I should remove all associated profiles in the printer's Color Management default properties AND disable color management in the printer's dialog for the particular job. Then the only place where I would select the proper profile is in Photoshop's print dialog. Is this correct?

On the other hand, if I choose to let the Printer Manage Color, is it wise or does it matter to let Windows automatically select from among the list of associated profiles, or is it best to select "Manual" in the Color Management tab and set the default to the appropriate profile for that job? And in this case would I want to set the Color Adjustment in the printer's Main tab dialog for that job to Auto or Manual?

 

[Smile]

Thanks. I'm beginning to understand this cryptic and confusing subject. The step I was missing when selecting "Photoshop Manages Color" was that I overlooked the Color Management tab of the i960's default properties. When I checked that tab, "Automatic" is selected which allows Windows to select the best profile from among the list of five profiles associated with the Canon i960 printer.

From your reply, I would conclude that if I intend to let Photoshop Manage Color, I should remove all associated profiles in the printer's Color Management default properties AND disable color management in the printer's dialog for the particular job. Then the only place where I would select the proper profile is in Photoshop's print dialog. Is this correct?

Yes

On the other hand, if I choose to let the Printer Manage Color, is it wise or does it matter to let Windows automatically select from among the list of associated profiles, or is it best to select "Manual" in the Color Management tab and set the default to the appropriate profile for that job? And in this case would I want to set the Color Adjustment in the printer's Main tab dialog for that job to Auto or Manual?

Well automatic works like this:

All canon papers like Photo Pro, Glossy, Glossy Plus etc. that you see in printer driver are selecting the profile depending which one you select. So it's not automatic - you do select paper in driver and it uses profile for that paper and printer settings optimized for that paper made by Canon.

When you remove profiles in color management tab it can't select profiles and only uses optimal linearized settings for particular paper.

You need to understand what a linearization is - it's way to set printer settings for particular paper so that it prints the best way possible. Canon done this and coded the drivers to change these hidden settings on every paper type - this is what happens under the hood. Plus as I said when you select paper type in the driver it selects proper profile.

That is why when custom profile is made you need to print a test print on every paper setting you can to find the best match. Of ten this means printing 5 or 6 test charts to do this because naked eye can't see the fine gradations a spectrophotometer can.

I always offer my client to print from all paper settings to find what combination gives best unprofiled result. Only then test chart should be printed. Also there is a problem in printing BW photos so to solve it one must make manual linearization by combining one test chart for linearization and only then print the profiling test chart. It's a very complex process when you don't know how it works

 

[knblis]

Got it! I'll stick with the Canon profiles and won't tinker with the linearization part and custom profiles. Many thanks for your thorough and thoughtful replies. I do have a much better understanding for my purposes.