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Please help? Color Management Madness!

Discussion in 'Printing Photos and Photo Software' started by Photographic Memory, Nov 17, 2017.

  1. Nov 17, 2017
    Photographic Memory

    Photographic Memory Printing Ninja

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    <Rant to get off my chest>

    Ok I almost forgot I had you guys here for back-up, the underground "hackers"… just had run-ins with a couple of suspicious 'trolls' over at dpreview that has lead to a temporary ban. They have been hellbent on "shoving CC (Cloud) down everyone's throats" and by me getting involved with such talk as "only a fool would blindly subscribe to a "cloud" and offload all one's personal possessions to a remote server in the trust that it is safe indefinitely", etc…
    And now I really need assistance, and didn't know where else to turn. Unable to post on there now. Forgive me, PrinterKnowledge should have been first choice from the start.

    </over rant href="breathe">

    [Context]
    So. I found you all here when my Canon Pixma ix6550 started acting up which lead to me getting a new Pro-100S which lead to me researching/studying/digesting your a la Breaking Bad science (*gnosis I know this)

    Well along with everything I even got to grips with Calibrating my recently purchased LG 24" IPS LED with the ColorMunki Photo and created a lovely Semi-Gloss Paper Profile to compliment the whole package (Semi-Gloss/Satin/Pearl is my vice!)

    >> He is my INSANE dilemma!!

    _Today…

    Whilst testing out various Proofing options/scenarios I was yet again with Computer Madness extreme 101 and after almost a whole day I have about been ready to throw in the towel (and take a break). Here I am. This is it. Ready?

    So, dual monitor set-up (LG 24" and ASUS X75VC laptop)

    I have an image, a Photograph, that I decided to print out 5x7 multiple times and label each with different Profiles each with Perceptual and Relative Colorimetric. So that's 8 Prints using…
    Canon GL3, Canon GL(A)3, Canon SG3 and my own created ColorMunki (SG) profile.

    Here's what I noticed after looking at the Prints (beautiful all of them) next to the monitor I calibrated. Not much like the Monitor at all! Colors way off! What is pale cream on the screen is pastel pink on the image, what is orange on the print is red on the screen, etc, etc. (This isn't actually the madness by the way)

    So OK back to pre-ColorMunki ICC ICM days, no problem I thought, I reversed engineered a monitor Calibration to match Print to an acceptable degree, if need be I'll do it again.

    I was trying multiple scenarios, digging deeper, looking at Display Color/Management settings (Windows 7), trying to see the difference between 'Assign Profile' and 'Convert To Profile' when picking up an image and dragging it I noticed the color rendition changed. Hmmm. Wierd. So I dragged the window'ed inage without letting go and looked at the Prints again… now they seem like an almost perfect match. WTH I am thinking, what IS going on! Why when I let go of this image does the color change? Then I drag the image from Monitor to Laptop and the color doesn't change (but laptop calibration was never close to the monitor/printer profile to begin with).

    After doing a print head clog type diagnosis (dia-gnosis, who knew?) that I learned of from YOU guys! I decided to try and figure out what was wrong, everything from was it the HDMI Cable, Intel Graphics Card, Display Settings/Assigned Profile.

    I narrowed it down to this…
    In Display / Screen Resolution, select
    Display 2. LGIPSFULLHD(HDMI) and Check 'Make this my main display'

    Did this fix the problem of correct*
    color showing without having to drag the window'ed image? Kind of…
    Now I notice that when I drag the image on the Laptop Screen the problem has now flipped itself over to the Laptop, drag image, color changes, undragged/drop, color changes.

    *correct color? If this was "mad" enough for me to experience things just got more crazy… I decided to duplicate the photo, and see if there was a difference between 'Assign Profile' and 'Convert to Profile' and chose AdobeRGB (1998). Guess what,
    they both differed dramatically in color plus now when you drag both images they change color/white balance/grading/hue/contrast/whatever.

    My head is now spinning with utter confusion, I go into Color Management which at this point is a total head **** because of such options as Change System Defaults (sRGB or ICC viewing conditions?) and noticing that when I change a profile either the monitor will change but to what looks like D50 and not D65 or doesn't seem to change at all until I then go back to Screen Resolution/Make This My Main Display OR if I do that first it changes Color Management Settings.


    [COMPUTERS ARE GREAT WHEN THEY WORK YET CONSUME YOU DURING TIMES LIKE THESE!]


    Any advice greatly appreciated, gratefully appreciate it!

    And sorry for my untidy way of trying to explain/get my point across, it's yet again one of the days, where I wish I never used computers as I am getting to old for this jazz!
     
  2. Nov 17, 2017
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Moderator

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    I can sympathise with your dilemma, because I never go there myself, but what I’d suggest to you to do is simple, first download one of the many test prints that are available on the web.

    Now print that with no colour setting except Media type, don’t touch a thing and let the printer handle the colours, all you must do is click on print.

    Take your printed sample to your monitor and see if they match, they should but if they don’t, then that would be a good place to start... ;)
     
  3. Nov 17, 2017
    Photographic Memory

    Photographic Memory Printing Ninja

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    Hey buddy, I've heard of that technique before, have already downloaded a few test prints, but haven't gotten around to printing any yet (probably fear of using precious ink, especially after (apparently?) Calibrating precious Pro-100S… using the Color Munki Photo Spectrometer my brother lent me)

    Hey I managed to empty my first cart today - Light Grey, and soon Light Magenta? Was getting ready to switch out Carts for the first time EVER Refill! When this stupidity happened…

    Have been googol-ing "color shift drag window photoshop dual monitor" and guess what? I am not the only one! In fact people have been freaking out about this (yes also using Titles such as "crazy" "weird") on the official Adobo forums right back at CS4 and the back and forwards chit-chat with the Developers "blaming" the Mac OS and when someone replies "nope, me also, Windows 7 64 bit" they respond with "Graphics Card bug, stay away from Nvidia" or whatever they said. This is CS 6 and the problem, while now acknowledged is widespread since creating this forum topic, hasn't been addressed. Yet… still reading…

    Thank you, friend :)
     
  4. Nov 17, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    there are by far too many open strands to handle at the same time - profiles - monitors, inks , papers , what else - software - driver settings - a nervous user... and probably more. We somehow should narrow down the variables first -e.g. one monitor - one paper - one profile or similar, and go through the software and driver settings.
    you are now using a Canon Pro 100S as I understand which is in the middle of all this confusion, which inks are you using - Canon or 3rd party cartridges or refill - which brand ? Which papers are you using - Canon papers or 3rd party ? Have you been using profiles or a calibrated monitor before - any prior experience with color management ?
    And just a few comments to start with - it's a misbelief that an image on the monitor and a printout should look the same - the gamuts are different - the brightness is different - the available contrast range is different - or are you using a norm light box with 5000K and 500Lux to judge your prints ? So we rather put that issue aside for a while.
    I think we'll get through it, with the help of some others - e.g. I'm not familiar with the driver settings of the Pro 100s or settings in Adobe, I'm using other hardware and software.
     
  5. Dec 13, 2017
    Photographic Memory

    Photographic Memory Printing Ninja

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    Just an update, thank you for your assist... Turned out my solution was to switch the 24" LG monitor to become Primary Monitor and relagated the Laptop Monitor to Secondary. I guess there is not enough power as it is only a laptop, but it works now as intended… what I see on the screen a)doesn't change colors when I move the image and b)matches print correctly.

    I also totally reinstalled Windows 7 from scratch for the first time in years and am now only running what I need. Wow, what a difference, the OS is useable almost immediately upon boot up. It too was locking up in Windows Explorer when viewing files to print (Tiffs)
     
  6. Dec 13, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    Thanks for your update that you got your system set up properly with the color mgmt issues resolved.
     
    The Hat and Photographic Memory like this.

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