newbie here (and i mean really new)

[snoopy]

hi everyone,
i just came across your forum looking for instructions on how to refill epson cartridges.
I have an epson cx4600 and i found the refills (ims ink) only because they were at Costco right beside the original cartridges. had no idea that a chip resetting device existed before that, so my knowledge on refilling is the closest to nothing (beside what i read in here).
Point is, i dont know anything about how a ink cartridge work: whats the need of all the maze inside? regulate the ink flow? canon cartriges have just 2 comparments and seem as easy to refill as could be filling a bottle, the epson ones seem like a pita, is it possible to build cartriges made like the canon ones but that fit , for size and shape and chip, the epson printers? 2) i understand that a cartridge works a little like a straw filled with water with one finger on one side, poke an hole somewhere and its like letting the finger go on the straw, all the ink comes out from the sponge side, am i right or i got it wrong? and eventually: there must be air coming into the cartrige while the ink get used, otherwise would be easier for the ink to come out when its full and less and less while emptying, where that air comes from? would be possible to refill from there?
I understand that the continuos refill systems are only if you print a lot (that i dont do) but why they cost so much? arent they just dummy cartriges, some tubes and bottles? Anyone ever homemade one? they seem to get rid of all the refilling troubles.
Wouldnt be possible to have an easy refill sistem that is made with the dummy cartriges that work like normal (non continuos) but that you can refill through tubes?

I like to tinker with stuff and i dont want to bore and annoy all of you guys with a million of stupid questions so anyone knows if there is some online resource on how the whole cartridges/printers works? I know its weird, but its just that im not a "follow the instructions and be happy" kinda person.

thanks

 

[fotofreek]

Your description of how the Canon ink cart works is pretty accurate! The amount of opening that the air vent provides is just enough to replace the ink that is used with air to prevent a vacuum in the cart. The sponge tends to resist ink flow unless under demand for printing. You have to buy chips to put on the carts, and you will also need a chip resetter for when you refill the carts.

MIS has spongeless carts for most Epson printers that are much easier to refill than the Epson OEM carts. There is some sort of maze inside the cart that acts similar to the sponge in keeping the ink from flowing out unless needed to print. I spoke to someone at MIS about these carts and they claim that they work well and are pretty much as easy to refill as the Canon carts. I don't have personal experience with them, but I did try to refill Epson OEM carts about three years ago and found it to be much more difficult than CAnon carts. That is why I ended up buying Canon printers and giving my Epson away even though it was working quite well.

 

[ghwellsjr]

The first inkjet I bought was an Epson CX4600, just like yours, because it had individual cartridges and I was told they could be refilled. I went online and bought everything I needed for a little over a hundred dollars, including a new set of empty cartridges that had a chip that could be reset with a resetter that they sold me. Then I discovered Neil Slade's website and learned that the original Epson cartridges came with Durabrite pigment inks that are very good (but expensive) but the ink that I bought online was dye. According to Epson, you need special photo paper designed for Durabrite ink which I also bought. But, I decided to send everything back, return the printer and paper and go with Canon. So I, like fotofreek, switched from Epson to Canon.

I'm only saying this to alert you to the issue of the pigment ink and the special paper. Most re-ink suppliers will not tell you that their ink is dye instead of the pigment the printer was designed for. If I were to re-ink the CX4600 I would try to find a supplier of pigment ink and print only on matte or plain paper. The Durabrite ink is excellent but expensive when you buy it in cartridges.

Right now, there are available on eBay some refurbished Canon MP780 all-in-one printers for a little over half the price they originally sold for. They use the older non-chipped cartridges that are the easiest to refill. Buy one and enjoy refilling. Or keep your Epson and expect frustration. Or buy a new Canon with chipped cartridges and expect frustration.

Just my opinion.

If you want to know about how the air works in a Canon cartridge, read post #3 in this thread:

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1169

 

[mikling]

The Epsons can be refilled if you know how. If you use your printer frequently enough, clogging on an Epson is essentially a non issue. Yes, Pigment is more expensive BUT if you want permanent pictures or documents this is far superior to dye inks from Canon and Epson dye as well.

With the Epson, refilling multiple times does not induce ink buildup causing the cartridge to no longer function like the Canon and then requiring that you purge the cartridge. The Epson OEM spongeless cartridge design is actually excellent as it uses the ink in FIFO ( First in First Out) fashion as opposed to the Canon ( LIFO) Last in First out fashion thus you can see the problem of built up ink deposits. Furthermore it regulates the ink pressure to the head to maintain even flow from start to finish.

Yes, the Canon is easier to refill and cheaper. But consider that when you refill, a higher ink cost is not as dramatic on a per page basis in real terms. If you want a waterproof archival document the choice is clear either laser or pigment..... not dye. Pigment ink is more expensive than dye... for a reason.

Epsons using pigment ink is easier to clog from non usage but you're dealing with permanent ink and resins and that's the nature of the beast. I kind of think of printing with a kind of paint.

Check my website out for the proper way to refill the Epson OEM cartridge. It's not quite as easy a refillable or Canon but it is straightforward with NO gotchas. When the original is refilled properly it NEVER gives you flow problems that the refillables can sometimes give you. Does not give you air bubbles. Does not cause clogging. It simply acts and flows like a new Original Epson cartridge. In addition it offers the best fit and seal compared to compatibles and this is a key area to keeping the Epson head working properly. Poor fit and seal will introduce air bubbles into the head that looks like a clog. Performing a head cleaning only makes it worse as you introduce more air in. This point is often misdiagnosed as clogging by many who don't understand what's going on.

Canons are good but Epsons are also good. Look at what you want and make your choice there are pros and cons of each and BOTH can be refilled. With new printers, the Epson retains full software functionality when refilled and reset ( The newest Epson with the 77,78 cartridges are up in the air now). The same cannot be said of the Canon with their newest chipped cartridges.

 

[ghwellsjr]

It sounds like mikling has taken the frustration out of refilling Epson Durabrite cartridges. Way to go, mikling!

After having successfully unclogging my neighbor's CX4600, I wouldn't even worry about clogs. Once you know how to do it, it is very easy. And I believe it is easy to prevent clogs.

See post #3 on this thread:

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1334

And posts #47 thru #51 on this thread:

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=311

 

[snoopy]

thanks for the replies.
Switching from epson to canon its out of the question, for some reasons too long to explain ill keep going on with this one, i own even an old canon bjc4200 that i have some "plotter projects" for, so i might think of turning those cartridges into continuos flow (if ill come up with a way).
The refilling kit i have i think has plugs to close the refill hole (i ended not opening it in case someone in this forum was telling me that its not good) it doesnt say if its dye or pigment but the cartriges are listed as compatable on the package (in their site www.ims-ink.com i found they arent listed for some reasons) and for 19.99$Can for the 540ml seemed worth the try (costco price). Durability of the prints its not a big deal for me since i use to spray the photo prints with an UV protection of the kind used to protect drawings from fading with the time, for my real photo printing needs (that one pic that end supersized and on the wall) i cant really beat the price i get from a photo store. I dont even print tons of material but i refuse to pay for 4 cartridges a price that is more than what i gave for the printer itself.
Im not scared of refilling the cartridges, i expect doing so with a smile on my face actually (hear cash register noise), the problem is that having a plug on the bottom of the cartridge didnt really make me sleep tranquil, so i started looking for a pic of an open cartridge and i found this one

at http://www.bobpowell.net/refill.htm, its apparently a TO45something but i think its the same as a TO44somethingelse (i dont have an empty spare to open). Ive been surprised by the number of compartments, why there is that empty one on top? is it an additional ripoff (less ink, buy more frequently) or it has to be there for some reason? why not connect it to the rest and use the top to refill? and then again whats that round sort of drum i can see in the middle of the cartridge pic? is the vent hole there? and what about the spring on the right side?
Thats why i was looking for some "technical reading". Dont know why but all that complicated ink circulating system make me think that there could be a way to make refilling easier than the canon.

 

[mikling]

There is another side to the cartridge that will expose the damper valve that is that big round thing. That "big round thing" is never seen on compatibles..... wonder why? In fact none of this complexity is ever seen on compatibles and this is why it works so darn well on the original and no problems at all if you stick to the original.

One of the reasons epson doesn't run their cartridge dry before it says empty is that it protects the head from ingesting bubbles which can be a nightmare when it happens. The other reason is that even when close to empty, you can remove the cartridge put it in different positions replace it and have to expect it will not ingest air into the head. The last reason is profit... could be.

As to IMS... let's say I lost my beloved Epson 875DC after 5 years of trusty operation with ( MIS/Image Specialists ink) after a short visit to Costco a couple years back and I paid $24.99 a few years back too. The color cast was way too inaccurate even for pictures for fun on the 875. After that I put it into an HP45 cartridge and it sludged the screens to create a dead 45 cartridge. The dye ink itself didn't do it but there was some incompatibility between it and the pigment in the HP45. The other thing is to make sure that IMS dye ink doesn't cause the pigments to come out of suspension in the leftover ink in the Epson and settle into sludge into the valve system, or your head. Just be careful. I'm not saying it will do it but do your homework. Approx 25% of the cartridge is still left when it says empty. Want to play cool, reset it and continue to use it and see how close you can get without ingesting air. As Dirty Harry says " Do you feel lucky today?"

BTW the IMS ink is dye and furthermore, be careful even when mixing pigment inks. Not all pigment inks are compatible. Test Test Test or it could be expensive.

If you don't have a vacuum pump, refilling from the bottom can trap major bubbles in there and if that gets ingested into the valve then to the head..... when you refill, it should weigh in the 40 grams region. If not, be careful.

 

[snoopy]

wow, mikling, now that sort of worries me, i had the idea that the ink in the cartridge and the new one could not being happy together but i didnt figure it would have been much of a big deal if i started printing a lot after the first refill to lets say "flush" until it was practically all new ink. I might bring it back or use it on the old canon, thanks for the advice (wasnt it "...feel lucky PUNK"?).
In my lunch break i gave a closer look to one of the cartridges and i discovered the "other side" before reading your post , with light reflecting on it i could follow the channel and looking under the top edge of the label seems to me that it actually is open about in the middle of the cartridge lenght. Thanks for telling me what that round thing is.
I was reading your instructions and i like the idea of a top corner hole a lot better than a low one, it also occurred to me that you are actually tapping into that empty comparment above the round damper thing housing (it does seem like the empty comparment are two but on a closer look of the picture the divider doesnt close completely (ie its not high enough to touch the side of the cartridge that has been removed in the pic), how then that empty compartment is connected to all the rest? are you ending filling part of the air maze too with your system or one of the corner of the round housing is open into the empy compartment too (if my eyes see right in the pic)?
The little pinhole you poke onto the indent in the label seems falling rifght onto the spring compartment, does that means that that one is open on both sides and only the label close it on the indent?
And talking about that spring thing: in the printer there is a plastic pin that pushes up onto that spring (actually onto whatever there is under it) once the cartridge is in place, is that a valve of some sort? something that avoid ink dripping out the cartridge once its off the printer?
I have the impression the ink stays stored in the bottom of the cartridge, flows to the compartment on the top right through the spring section, in some way that i cant actually see, and then follows its way to the round housing that seems connected to the bottom opening, is that the right path? so the printer actually sucks the ink out this cartrige?

Sorry if im so sticky with all this questions. Its just morbid curiosity i guess, or some sort of disease.

 

[chippedoff]

Hello.

"Extortion Chip" eh.

Well you made my day.

 

[snoopy]

chippedoff, Bob Powell came out with that, the pic its from a page in his site actually. But i fully second it. I understand the usefulness of a chip that tells you the ink level of a cartridge, maybe its less expensive than an optical device nowadays, maybe, who knows...(id vote for a toilet tank kind of level indicator, simple and reliable). Mikling explained why it signs empty when theres still ink, although it could go a little lower than a 25%, but its the fact that they created the chip so that it would make the cartridge useless when they knew people refills them that justify calling it extortion.

If they were to work on an OEM refillable cartridge with a chip resettable via printer software and they would sell the ink to refill, now that would get some market i bet.