Newbie experience with refillable carts (1430, precisioncolors inks)

[DonC]

Hi all, I usually just lurk and have learned a lot from reading the forum. I thought I'd share my own observations after a year which basically confirm what many of the veteran experts have noted.

I switched to a set of refillable carts after my original oem set ran out, obviously due to cost concerns. I usually print a few times a week, but travel a bit so a week or two with no printing is not uncommon. I ordered from precision colors due to them offering profiles for a wide range of papers. I primarily print with Epson matte presentation and Ultra premium lustre; Red river ultrapro satin, and some leftover HP premium glossy for test prints.

1) OEM carts never once had clogging issues even after up to 4 week intervals without printing (though I would try to power cycle weekly) and obviously print extremely well on epson and red river papers.
2) The color quality using the profiles from PC was excellent
3) refillable began clogging right a away. Though this was not really clogging but air bubbles. Sometimes I would lose an entire color suddenly and a clogging issue could appear with only a day between prints.
4) Clogging issues were usually resolved after 1-2 cleaning cycles but resulted in wasting a good bit of paper and ink.
5) PC inks are not nearly as UV resistant as OEM, especially the black ink. Seems to be less of a problem on uncoated paper and worst on thicker coatings.
6) auto reset chips are not great. Get the manual re-setter so you can refill all of them when you want to.

I'll just leave off with a question: has anyone found better refillable cartridges? I've been eyeing these which tout some features: https://www.inkproducts.com/ink-store441/product.php?productid=266 but don't want to try them without any solid info.

Thanks

Don

 

[DonC]

Here's a good example. PC inks on Epson ultra premium luster. It was kept in a living room that gets a lot of sun about 2 hours/day. The glass of the frame had been broken and you can see how the edges remain dark.

Since I didn't mention it before. I should add that I am somewhat galled that PC has kept his description of the EV6 inkset unchanged despite all the evidence to the contrary: "More lightfastness when primarily sunlight exposure is of concern offering significantly longer lasting prints when displayed."

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

You are addressing two different issues - assumed problems with cartridges or refilling in general and the fading of dye ink prints exposed to the sun.
There are various problems with refill as you are already addressing them - the ink flow is impeded one way or the other - letting air get into the ink flow, or probably not enough air into the cartridge, it can be an issue with the mechanical fit. I'm not familiar with the type of cartridges you are using so it might be difficult for some remote diagnostics.
There are quite some threads posted here with tests of the ink fading performance of various inks - mostly Epson, and I'm running as well a test at this time
https://www.printerknowledge.com/th...nks-and-alternatives.11841/page-3#post-101145
and keep in mind that the paper used has as well a significant impact onto the fading performance.
There are big differences between inks, and lots of claims about the fading performance, although there are gradual transitions between the groups I would put the inks into 3 ranges - performance equal to or similar with Epson Claria inks, Fujifilm DL, and Ultrachrome D6, a medium performing range and some inks you can watch fading when you just look to them, you don't need to go through all the details here
https://www.printerknowledge.com/th...nks-and-alternatives.11841/page-3#post-101145

 

[DonC]

Thanks for your reply, I have been following your tests for a while now
So if I understand your tests, basically the PC EV6 is in the lowest category due to the black fading. Does it make sense to use up the rest of the EV6 I have but substitute a better black like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/FujiFilm-C1...ge-700ml-Frontier-DL600-ALL-2016/232435415184
without needing a new profile? Unfortunately I only have a monitor profiler and cannot profile prints. but I imagine that black would be the easiest to substitute.

As for the cartridges I'm using, they are the ones sold by precision color. Except the ones he has pictures of have the air hole and refill port reversed. I've been thinking about leaving the stopper for the refill port off to possibly get better air pressure - but I suppose this risks having dust get into the ink?

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

The EV6 inks were performing better than quite some other inks as I remember but I didn't list any of those fast fading inks because I wanted to look more to the better performing ones, there are too many of those types at the low performing range. Yes, you can use another black, the black controls the overall perception of contrast in an image. But the other inks should be equivalent or you get a shift in the color balance sooner or later. And to be accurate not all black inks are alike, they differ in their black level which controls the transition point for the black point compensation if you print with a profile activated. There is a very fine wire mesh filter in most refill cartridges close to the ink outlet so particles will be caught there .

 

[mikling]

Here's a good example. PC inks on Epson ultra premium luster. It was kept in a living room that gets a lot of sun about 2 hours/day. The glass of the frame had been broken and you can see how the edges remain dark.

Since I didn't mention it before. I should add that I am somewhat galled that PC has kept his description of the EV6 inkset unchanged despite all the evidence to the contrary: "More lightfastness when primarily sunlight exposure is of concern offering significantly longer lasting prints when displayed."


View attachment 5903

Thanks for the fine compliment. I guess you have not been exposed to the excellent inks that you can purchase elsewhere like Ebay and also get some excellent profiles from these same vendors as well ...for did I say FREE?.

Refill Ink is a very competitive market and cost is an issue. Getting good performance does not come as easy as some think. It's not like you just go to the shelf and get EXACTLY what your dreams desires at 1/20th the cost of OEM.

That said, I had sold Image Specialists Claria compatible ink for many many years and the EV6 beats those ink by a long shot. Many still sell that line and I guess you did not try those either before making a great compliment of "gall".

I am currently testing a replacement black ink but it takes time and effort. Papers and its variations are significant, Now let's get some facts straight. I do this thing better than ANY reseller of ink anywhere in the world. I don’t like unjustified name calling as you post infers. Edited..

There's a reason why I think of exiting this business some days like today. Compliments like yours and dealing with people wanting to acquire exact OEM performance at not 20% savings or 30% saving but 90+% savings is a near impossible task that even I cannot fulfil.

 

[DonC]

Mike,

First, I'm sorry that you were personally insulted by my remarks regarding how the EV6 inks are described. Again, I apologize that you took it that way as that was not my intent. Edited...

However, to be clear, my intent was to critique how the inkset it described on your website, and in that vein, I hope you will take the following simply as a comment on that issue, and not an attack on your personal integrity or work ethic.

I originally purchased these inks when they first came out--this was my first purchase of non-oem inks. I can understand that you made those longevity claims, based on the information you had at the time. However, we are now what, three years later, and evidence shows this claim to be inaccurate. So, in my opinion, there is a significant mismatch between the description, which looks like it has not been updated over the past three years, and the product. I don't think anyone can read that description and assume that in a relatively sunny room, on premium oem photo paper, that the print will look like that after half a year.

I don't expect OEM performance, but I expect as accurate information as is possible. If that means adding a note that certain papers will perform much better with this ink than others, and that mounting behind glass is a necessity, then please include it. For newbies like me, having that information upfront is really helpful. I'd certainly be delighted to hear what papers you recommend to use with EV6, rather than having to figure it out haphazardly on my own at the cost of wasting a lot of good paper.

Wishing you all the best and looking forward to that reformulated black in that you're working on.

Don

 

[The Hat]

Standing back from this discussion, I can say without a dough that I reckon yes, you are calling mikling's integrity into question, but you’ve use the inks for 3 years and only now decide you want to be super critical about their longevity. !

I happily use Precision Colour inks, and they do fade but I don’t complain about it because all dye inks fade and that includes OEM inks too, if you expect a little longer life out of your prints then use OEM ink, and suffer the costs, or do what I and others do and switch to good quality pigment inks...

I reckon you have had your rant and now it’s time to move on, a little more civilised in future please..

 

[DonC]

How is a reporting one's experience with a product and saying that one is annoyed that its description is misleading a "rant" and not civilized? I don't think that everyone knows that dye inks do not last so no one takes these descriptions seriously, and by the way, just go with pigment-based inks is an adequate answer.

 

[Roy Sletcher]

How is a reporting one's experience with a product and saying that one is annoyed that its description is misleading a "rant" and not civilized? I don't think that everyone knows that dye inks do not last so no one takes these descriptions seriously, and by the way, just go with pigment-based inks is an adequate answer.

How about your comment:

"However, we are now what, three years later, and evidence shows this claim to be inaccurate...."

You then go on to state your opinion and experience implying it is a universal fact and reproducable. We are all entitled to our opinions, just as I am stating my opinion now, but what you have written is not evidence based.

I have prints made from PC inks framed under glass hanging on my walls and three years later they show no sign of fading. That is not evidence either. I could have stored then in a dark drawer for two anda half years.

I am not trying to be a total "dick" about this, and get get you are saying, but feel your malignment of PC inks is a somewhat unfair.

Just my opinion.



RS

PS - I do not speak for, or have any connection with Precision Colours.