new IP4500 time to replace CLI-8M/Y/C, but CLI-8Bk is still FULL, Why?

[ghwellsjr]

Canon printers never mix pigment black and dye black ink but there are cases where they mix pigment or dye black with dye colors, even when printing just black. In these cases you cannot tell by dripping water on a printout if the pigment black or the dye black is used because there will be running in both cases. And the drip test may not work with some third party inks because many suppliers mix dye black ink in with their pigment black ink. To find out, do a nozzle test on plain paper and see if the grid at the top of the page bleeds when water is dripped on it.

To summarize:

1) Pigment black is never used on any photo paper. Dye black is always used on photo paper.

2) Pigment black is almost always used on plain paper, except (as stratman pointed out earlier) dye black is used when doing borderless printing.

3) Pigment black is the only ink used when printing black (or greyscale) on plain paper except in duplex printing.

4) Pigment black is mixed with dye colors when printing black (or greyscale) on plain paper in duplex printing.

5) Dye black is mixed with other dye colors when printing black (or greyscale) on photo paper.

You can read a lot of discussion on this subject by clicking on the Inkjet FAQ's link at the top of this page.

Keep in mind that these test were done on printers prior to the chip cartridges coming out--I assume that the same holds true for newer printers.

 

[Gompy]

Stratman & Ghwellsjr:

Thanks for the further information, very much appreciated.

Regards, Gompy

 

[DI Canon ip4500]

The posts here caught my attention and I am curious about the comments that duplexing uses the photo black (I forget the proper name) rather than the standard text cartridge. I have printed only a few color pages, including some maps, and no photos. Most of my printing has been a nearly 400 page manuscript, which was printed in duplex. My ip4500 is pretty new (and I am completely new to Canon *and* ink jets) so pardon me if this is a dumb comment. But when I went to do another copy of this large document in duplex, it got a dozen pages into it and the printer light started flashing. I looked online and saw the cartridge was rated for about 500 pages, so that seemed okay. But it told me to replace the PGI-5BK cartridge.

I've done a tiny amount of single-sided printing compared to the manuscript copy. So it seems like my printer is using the 5BK even for duplex. Should I be changing some settings or...?

Any advice appreciated: as I said, I'm a newbie in this area.

 

[ghwellsjr]

I know this is a little confusing so I will try to explain it very clearly.

When printing on plain paper, the dye black ink is never used except when doing borderless printing.

If you are doing normal (one-sided, bordered) printing, black will be printed using only the pigment black ink.

In your case, you are doing duplex (double-sided) printing on plain paper. This means that black will be printed using the pigment black ink mixed with cyan and magenta dye inks (but not the black dye). So your experience of having to replace the pigment black cartridge makes sense. I'm sure you will also be asked to replace those two dye ink cartridges soon too, but your dye black should last a very long time.

 

[stratman]

The posts here caught my attention and I am curious about the comments that duplexing uses the photo black (I forget the proper name) rather than the standard text cartridge. I have printed only a few color pages, including some maps, and no photos. Most of my printing has been a nearly 400 page manuscript, which was printed in duplex. My ip4500 is pretty new (and I am completely new to Canon *and* ink jets) so pardon me if this is a dumb comment. But when I went to do another copy of this large document in duplex, it got a dozen pages into it and the printer light started flashing. I looked online and saw the cartridge was rated for about 500 pages, so that seemed okay. But it told me to replace the PGI-5BK cartridge.

I've done a tiny amount of single-sided printing compared to the manuscript copy. So it seems like my printer is using the 5BK even for duplex. Should I be changing some settings or...?

Any advice appreciated: as I said, I'm a newbie in this area.

Your printer is functioning as designed.

The IP4500 has Page Yields for the PGI-5 of 525 pages per Canon's testing with text documents. Your mileage will vary because you do not print the exact same document as Canon did for their testing.

You can read more about Page Yields for your printer at http://downloads.canon.com/cpr/software/printers/iP4500.pdf.

If you are going to be printing text documents like the manuscript you mentioned, I highly recommend you get an inexpensive Laser printer for the quality of output, the cost savings and the speed of printing. An alternative is to begin refilling your cartridges with high quality aftermarket inks that will run you about a dollar or two per refill.

 

[DI Canon ip4500]

Thank you to both of you. I was very happy with my B&W HP laser--trouble free for 14 years! but obviously it was outdated. I got this printer free on a promo w/my Mac. We usually do the manuscript at a copy shop, but I would like to do one now and then from home, so I appreciate the advice to check out the aftermarket option.

I understand my printer cartridges have a chip in them. Would you mind telling me, or directing me to a good site to learn, how to tell if the inks are high quality? I don't want to screw up my new printer.

 

[ghwellsjr]

My recommendation for those who want to refill Canon chipped cartridges like you have is to wait until your warranty has expired after one year of ownership and continue to buy Canon cartridges when you need them. Then you can start refilling using the German method (do a search to learn about it) with whatever ink you choose. I'm partial to Inktec which is available in small quantities from:

http://www.inkjetcartridge.com/canon1.html

The little "bottle" this ink comes in is actually syringe. You can put a needle on it and inject it right into the cartridge (after you drill a small hole in the appropriate spot). I'm guessing you will get two or three refills per bottle except for the pigment black which will be half as much.

I like Inktec first because the pigment black is 100% pigment--it's not diluted with dye black like many other inks are--and it's pitch black. Secondly their dye inks have been shown to have the best fade resistance of several inks tested:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=12198835

 

[stratman]

I understand my printer cartridges have a chip in them. Would you mind telling me, or directing me to a good site to learn, how to tell if the inks are high quality? I don't want to screw up my new printer.

You are already at one of the best sites concerning refilling! There is a wealth of information on Nifty-Stuf.com. Pretty much all your refilling questions are answered already in this forum. Use the search function to zero in on specific topics.

The major aftermarket ink players usually discussed in this forum are:

http://www.inksupply.com/ selling MIS inks (reported to be Ink Specialty inks)

http://www.precisioncolors.com selling Ink Specialty inks

http://hobbicolors.com/ selling Hobbicolors inks

http://www.alotofthings.com/viartshop/index.php selling Formulabs inks

http://www.inktec.com/english/main.asp for InkTec inks (Google "Inktec" for retailors)

I waited until my warranty expired before I began refilling in case the printer malfunctioned, needed service and Canon would not fuss about using overridden refilled chipped cartridges. There are plenty of users here that started refilling well before their warranties expired. It's all about your comfort zone and your bank account when and if you choose to refill. The actual process of refilling is simple and does not require a lot of time/effort.

As for refilling methods, there is the traditional method worked out using the older BCI cartridges and is compatible with your CLI/PGI cartridges, or, there is the newer Durchstich or German method (which I use). You can find detailed and complete info by searching this forum.

 

[stratman]

FYI:

Both Hobbicolors and Precision Colors sell their inks on eBay. The link for Hobbicolors is http://search.ebay.com/hobbicolors_W0QQfromZR40. The link for Precision Colors Image Specialists ink is on the website I provided in the previous post.

Probably any of the inks listed will suit your needs. As you peruse the forum you will see people's taglines state their printers and aftermarket inks used. Maybe this might help you decide. Also, their was a fantastic study done by Grandad35 comparing aftermarket inks to Canon OEM: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2681.

I use Precision Colors Image Specialists inks. The seller is also a participant in this forum (Mikling) and is based in Canada. Great inks, good guy, excellent prices.

 

[DI Canon ip4500]

Thank you all! I appreciate your generous sharing and advice (there is no substitute for experience) and will read more on this great forum.