new IP4500 time to replace CLI-8M/Y/C, but CLI-8Bk is still FULL, Why?

[Lilla]

new IP4500 time to replace CLI-8M/Y/C, but CLI-8Bk is still FULL, Why?

We have a new Canon IP4500 printer, and it is working great! We are still on our original cartridges, although we have a set of new Canon Cartridges onhand. I have two questions.

1) We are getting a low-ink warning message on CLI-8M, while CLI-8Bk cartridge is still completely full. How can this be, that is is not using dye black? CLI-8Bk is shown as full by the monitoring system, and I can see that it is totally full when I remove the cartridge. We have printed colored photos, and a number of black and white photos, so it seems like it should have used some CLI-8Bk ink, doesn't it?

Is it making the black it used from CLI8M/C/Y, since it's not using any dye black.
Or, is it using pigment black always (PGI-5 is 1/2 full), and never using dye black (CLI-8Bk)?
What do you think?

2) We started getting a low-ink warning message on CLI-8M, and I continued to print knowing that there is still ink in the sponge. At this point the light on the cartridge is blinking once per second. According to the manual, a blinking pattern of once per second is an indication that the cartridge is empty or low, and the cartridge should be replaced.

I thought I read somewhere (but maybe I'm dreaming), on this forum perhaps, that it was OK to continue printing as the printer would give an out-of-ink message or refuse to print or something when the cartridge was truely empty, and that it would not harm the printer to print until the printer refused to print because the cartridge was truely empty. However, I cannot find anything in the manual about this, just that you should change the cartridge when you get a blinking pattern of once per second.

So today I replaced the CLI-8M cartridge as I don't want to harm the printer. However, I can see that there is still what looks like alot of ink remaining in the sponge (the tank itself is dry). I would like to know if I can re-insert it and continue to print until it is empty, but how will I know when it is empty?

Any feedback on these questions would be GREATLY appreciated.

Lilla

 

[Ken_CW_Honolulu]

For inkjets with inktank cartridges and seperate print heads (such as your Canon) it is important to not to be running on empty. Essentially, what happens is that the printer will fire nozzles in the printhead. If full of ink the nozzles will fire and shoot microdroplets of ink onto your media. If empty: the nozzle will fire, (heating upwards of 200 degrees as it does when firing) and fry itself by burning out the nozzle resistor, or it will fire and bake the residual ink into the nozzle and clog it up something fierce.

This is why you refill while there's still some inkflow going on. As for why your black dye CLI-8BK is not being used, it's probably some weird setting somewhere on the printer or your driver software or your photo software that's set up not to use the dye cartridge.

 

[billkunert]

The CLI8-BK is dye ink and the PGI5BK is pigment ink. Unless you are printing photos you won't use much of the dye black. I believe anytime you print duplex it uses the pigment black due to bleed through.

 

[fish]

I have a MP830 (4 color + dye black +pigment black). I refill colors approx 2 to 3 times before the dye black is filled. Use of dye black is low compared to pigment and colors (normal mix of text and photos). Use of dye black would be higher if more photos are printed.

 

[fotofreek]

Fish is correct. I have a six color printer (i960) that I use exclusively for photos and some graphics. Black is the least used color. In the ip4500, if you have your setting at plain paper, you will use the pgi5bk pigment ink and that will further limit the use of the cli8-bk ink. If you have the paper choice set to anything but plain paper you will not use the pgi5bk cart. The exception, as noted in posts above, would be with duplex printing.

 

[ghwellsjr]

I don't have one of the newer Canon printers that uses the chipped cartridges but I'm sure they work like the earlier models that don't have chips. If so, the issue of dye black has nothing to do with whether you are printing photos, it has to do with whether you telling the printer that you are printing on photo paper. If you do not tell the printer that you are using photo paper, it will use the pigment black ink even if you use photo paper--not a good thing.

Also, the black dye ink is used only for the very darkest areas of a photo so it tends to last a long time.

 

[stratman]

The following list was gleaned from Pixma IP4200 data, but probably applies to your printer as well.

PGI-5 Pigment Black Ink is used ONLY For:
- Plain Paper Test (monochrome and grey scale)
- Envelopes
- Transparencies
- Duplex Printing On Plain Paper
- Camera Direct Printing on Plain Paper

CLI-8 Dye-Based Color Inks are used anytime color is printed and is used exclusively for:
- All Photo Paper types (including when Duplex printing)
- High Resolution Paper
- T-shirt Transfers
- CD-R's
- All Borderless Printing, on both PhotoPaper and Plain Paper

Usage of your ink is dependent upon what you print. Therefore, your ink usage will differ from others and most likely even in your own experience from cartridge to cartridge if you don't print the exact same things over and over again. Usually though, people tend to print enough similar things so that their ink usage is similar for each new/full ink cartridge they utilize. Of course if you start printing a lot of photos instead of text then your CLI-8 cartridges will drain faster. Same applies if your prints begin to use a lot of one color - I had a string of yellow intensive prints that drained the CLI-8 Yellow cartridge fast. When I went back to my more customary style of prints then the Yellow usage decreased back to the usual amount.

So, don't be alarmed that your CLI-8 Black ink is being used at a slower pace as it's just that your printing output needs less of it than the other colors.

Concerning your other question about the CLI-8 Magenta showing Low, your printer is designed to warn you with a pop-up window that ink has reached a lower amount so that you should get ready to replace it in the near future (depending on your printing habits this could be same day or weeks away). Your printer is designed to keep using the cartridge until "empty" (there will always be some residual ink in the sponge even after the cartridge is declared "empty") and then stop, not allowing you to proceed until you replace the cartridge with a filled one. There's more to the story than this but that is the easy/quick answer.

So if you only received the Low Ink warning, by all means keep using that cartridge until the printer tells you it is Empty. Otherwise you are throwing money away.

FYI - Per Canon Tech Support, if the cartridge becomes empty, with the Empty message popping up on your monitor, and don't have a new/refilled cartridge ready to be popped in, stop printing (you can't continue without overriding anyways) and go to the store for a new one or refill the empty with aftermarket inks. You can leave your printer on or turn it off and no harm will come to the printhead.

 

[Lilla]

Thank you all so much for your very thoughful and informative replies. So hopefully, all is well with our printer.

A few more details about how we use our printer...

I'm using Windows XP Home SP2.

I am using the latest driver available on Canon's website. I always select the specific photo paper from the printer driver (or application in the case of Canon apps).

I print photos using three programs:
* Canon Easy-PhotoPrint EX
* Canon PhotoRecord
* Cerious ThumbsPlus

I've printed a few color & BW 8x10 photos & some 4x6 on photo paper. In additon, I've also done a lot of plain paper printing, internet page and family tree charts (FamilyTreeMaker)

I did a nozzle check to assure that the Magenta looked good, and it does, as I said the cartridge still had lots of ink as evidenced by dark color on lower part of sponge, and light color top part of sponge.

However, while Magenta looked good, I noticed something that concerns me in the Cyan (top line) of the nozzle check. I scanned it so I can post a picture of it, will start a new thread for this issue later today.

 

[Gompy]

Hello all,

The following list was gleaned from Pixma IP4200 data, but probably applies to your printer as well.

PGI-5 Pigment Black Ink is used ONLY For:
- Plain Paper Test (monochrome and grey scale)

- Duplex Printing On Plain Paper

Didn't know that...
Always thought that for these kind of black printing, all colors are being used.
Tnx for the information.

Btw, a great forum this is.
Learned a lot of all kind of issues concerning printers/ink/refilling etc etc.
Tnx to all those posters.

Regards, Gompy

 

[stratman]

Gompy:

One way to tell if Pigment Black is used is to print a page out, let it dry completely, and then pour/run water over the text. If it runs/bleeds then it is Dye-based ink. If it holds up then it's Pigment ink.

If you use OEM Canon inks, Pigment Black will not or only very slighty smear when highlighted by a highlighter marker. The same may be true with aftermarket inks if they are of sufficient high quality.