Help! Where has all my ink gone?

[turin]

Hi

I bought a CIS system for my Epson Photo 900 from these guys in July http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/2005imports/
It has worked fine reasonably well the colour balance for photos was rubbish and I had to buy a profiler just to get reasonable colour matching (but thats another story).

In the last 3-4 weeks I haven't been using the printer much, maybe once a week just for the occasional text print or web page print.

I have noticed during this time the black ink level is steadily dropping, it is noticeable on a daily basis. At first I thought it might be I was using more black than colour ink, but since now its hardly being used it cant be the case. I'd also considered evaporation as there is an air filter in the top of the ink chamber, but comparing it to the colour inks they are almost full whereas the black now only has about 10mm of ink left.

Has anyone come across this before? Am I likely to have a big puddle of ink swimming around the bottom of the printer?

thanks

Turin

 

[canonfodder]

I looked at the style of CIS tanks that I think you bought, but can't tell from the pictures just what is inside the tanks. Do you see any special air passage or tube going down from the air inlet? The air inlet would be where the air filter goes. You might try to describe to us exactly what you see in the tanks, or take some closeup photos from front, side, and back.

I presume that the ink input opening is sealed by its plug. You should check very carefully that the plug for the black is sealing properly. Clamp the ink tube, at least for your problem black, pull the fill plug and examine the opening for rough edges or notches that would hurt the ability to seal. Don't forget to unclamp the ink tube when through.

Some CIS units require some air in the top of the dummy cartridge where the ink goes in. It has been stated as necessary to prevent a siphon from being established. Check your instructions and see if anything was said about that. If your other colors have some air there, but the black doesn't, that may be related to your problem.

Your ink is probably going into the "waste ink tank". This is not necessarily a tank, but is usually a sponge that is under the printhead when parked.

 

[turin]

Hi

Apologies for delay in replying....

Before Christmas I contacted the supplier and he agreed to send me a new bottle of black ink some new air filters and a new full black cartridge.


When I reported the problem to them this was the state of the ink levels




On the runup to Xmas I noticed the yellow/magenta carts were now draining...the black completely empty.

At this point I removed both colour and black carts and stood them correct way up on a tray. They stayed like this for over the Xmas period and not a drop of ink came out.


The replacement ink arrived about 10days ago....I went ahead and replaced the black cart and also partially filled the black container-.......

...... A week later with no printer usage the levels in the yellow has dropped about 1mm the magenta 4mm hopefully you can see a black line I drew on the container to show the what the levels were last week! Even the black has dropped.



this image is from the rear of the bottles so black is on the right etc.

Notice how the dark magenta and light blue have ink travelling up the air tubes!

These tubes stop about 35mm from the bottom of the container and appear to have a tiny hole in the side.



The level of ink in the air tubes seems to change on an hourly basis due either to room temp or atmospheric pressure???
I assume this is how the original air filters became contaminated with ink when the bottles were originally full.



So I'm back to square one, the ink tank is flooded again the supplier says the only way the ink can escape is through siphoning and for that to happen the bottles must be higher than the head.

Well as the bottles are on the table and the head is a good couple of inches higher I don't see how it can be siphoning.

Nonetheless the ink is escaping.

I would not recommend this setup to anyone and am loathe to replenish the inks at 20 a set just to see them drain away of their own accord.

I'd be most interested to hear if anyone else has had similar experience with continuous Ink Systems.

Turin

 

[mikling]

First thing I notice is that you air filter breathers are full of ink. How come? These are supposed to allow air through.

There are a couple of issues going on as well. I take it you're in the UK. In a heated home this time of year.

Here is one hunch. You printer is located in a spot with temperature fluctuations. With the air filter breather blocked, it is possible for the air within the ink chamber to expand. When it does and if the dip tube is immersed in the ink, the expanding air has to go somewhere. The tank is now pressurised and the pressure will either push the ink up the dip tube or it will force it out the nozzles on the printer. If the air breather filter is clogged with ink as is shown, it will force ink through the printhead.

If you look closely you can see the situation where the ink has been pushed up the dip tube because of the pressure inside. This phenomenon can also be caused by fluctuations in atmospheric pressure.

When the tube is not immersed but the filter is blocked, the situation gets larger the more air is within the tank as there is more volume to expand and contract.

How to fix this? simple. don't plug the tanks neither on the fill nor dip tube side or make sure you have a free breathing breather. Simply fill the tanks until it is level to the bottom of the printhead and refill when it drops to say 1/2 to 3/4 in below that .This way no siphon effect occurs. The amount to be determined by trial and error. I can't tell if the dip tube is below or above the printhead height but keep the ink below the dip tube. , It is now impervious to temp fluctuations as well as atmospheric , maintains a slight negative pressure that the Epson head needs. Yes, you'll need to refill a little more frequently BUT you keep the ink out of the light and stored properly so it lasts and doesn't age as quickly.

Don't fill the tanks and leave them there for a long time. It's not good. Look at my post regarding aging of inks.
Want something that works...remove the tubes from the tanks and place them in small bottles like my Green Epson 777 post. Keep the ink levels in the bottle as specified above and it'll probably work out fine. I recommend small bottles because there is less volume for the ink to evaporate into so the properties remain consistent AND you always put in fresh ink constantly. In my home brew CIS I used 1 oz bottles and a single 2 oz bottle for the black. So I have to fill a bit of ink every month or so..big deal I say. The ink is always fresh.

CISSes can work but sometimes the fancy pressure balance etc. features are really not necessary just simple physics.

Of course what you do is up to you.

BTW, wash out those filters with water, blow the water out and then dry them out. They'll be ok again.

 

[turin]

Mikling

Thanks for your reply,

the original setup came with the tanks already full and yes it was ink travelling up the tube that has flooded the filters.

These however have been replaced with new filters and the ink continues to drain away even though the level is below the bottom of the dip tube.

In fact overnight the magenta is now empty and has air in the feeder tube.

Not sure what to do now - risk another set of ink or just put it down to a bad purchase and go back to cartridges.

Am also wondering if it is possible to dispense with the external tank completely and just topup the cartridges (if that is an option)....any views on that approach?


I'll checkout your other posts - thanks for the headsup

Turun

 

[mikling]

You magenta went from full to nothing overnite? with no printing? Hmmm, the only way for that to happen is the following.

The seal of the head to the parking pad rubber cup is excellent, you should experience few clogs BUT the peristaltic pump that drains the parrking pad is defective in some form. It is not sealing perfectly well when stopped. That means that there is siphon effect that essentially leads from the bottom of the printer all the way back to the tanks. Imagine a hose that leads from the tank to the very bottom of the printer. To fix this you would have to remove the peristaltic pump and replace the hose. Relatively big job. The other solution is to obtain a clamp of some type that closes or that pinches all the tubes when not in use or adapt a fish aquarium air type valve body that can close off the tubes at will when you are not using the printer.

Normally the cartridge body and damper valves would have enough restriction to prevent this unless you obtained a CISS system with either no damper valves or one of poor design.

The ink travelling up the dip tube is definitely a differential in pressure between the tank and atmosphere when the dip tube is immersed in ink. This is separate from the siphoning effect.

Do you let your room get hot and cold? Is your printer/ tanks near a radiator or heat source that goes on and off?
Another remote possibility is that the ink you have is gassing out but I have never seen or heard of this before so this is pure speculation and this creation of gases is creating pressure within the tank. However, as soon as the ink in the tanks reaches below the dip tube, gassing would have no effect as the pressure should just exhaust up the dip tube. So It makes me wonder.

BTW, be careful all that disappearing ink is not in the air. It's in your waste ink pad and it might be soaking wet at this point based on you losing so much in so little time. Watch out for ink leaking from the bottom of your printer. I see you've put a tray under the tanks..good idea but keep an eye around the printer.

 

[turin]

You magenta went from full to nothing overnite? with no printing? Hmmm, the only way for that to happen is the following..

No not quite that fast.....but too fast for comfort (or to be cost effective)

at the beginning of december light magenta =

Last week when I changed the filters and topped up the black I also marked the level of the other tanks with a felt marker you can just make it out here



this image is from the back of the tanks so the light magenta is second from left, it drained from the pen mark to empty in 7 days

The seal of the head to the parking pad rubber cup is excellent, you should experience few clogs BUT the peristaltic pump that drains the parrking pad is defective in some form

Hmmm if I move the head so I can see the the parking pad which looks like rectangular rubber cup, it is full of ink, I have mopped this up before with kitchen towel - I thought this was the drain tank and it relied on evaporation to empty. What is this peristaltic pump and where does it pump the waste ink to? another container?

Yes the room temp does fluctuate it is not heated overnight, there is a radiator to the side of the printer but the inks are usually behind the printer and so away from the rad. I brought them around the front just to take the pics.

rgds

Turin

 

[mikling]

TEMPERATURE FLUCTUATIONS are a large part of your problem but I think not 100%. The aspect that the room is not heated overnight. This causes the air volume within the tank to expand and contract and that was my first hunch but the air breathers being full of ink is also part of the problem as well since as soon as the ink level dropped below the drip tube the temperature fluctuation effect should have ceased. Below the dip tube, you are running into the siphon effect.

Are the cartridges for the CIS you acquired a spongeless design?