Fading

[fish]

I purchased Kirkland paper (4x6 and 8.5x11) from Costco after reading many others using the paper. I am alarmed at how quickly the photos fade, presumably from UV as the partially covered areas were less affected. I have been using InkTec inks with no clogging issues and have had good results with swellable paper. I previously tested the InkTec ink against HP (56/57/96/97) but only with swellable paper and have previously posted my results. The amount of fading in 2-3 months is extremely disappointing.

Is this typical of this paper/ink combination? What about other inks?

BTW, I live in Hawaii with lots of sun although the prints were not exposed to direct sunlight.

 

[pharmacist]

I presume you have a HP printer an you are refilling those carts with Inktec ink. For more durable printouts try to refill a pair of old carts with pigmented ink, such as Kyson K4 ink, since even the nozzles get clogged, you won't damage the printer since the nozzles are built into the carts. I'm very curious about the Kyson K4 pigmented ink, but since I own a Canon i9950 with a fixed printhead I'm afraid to ruin my expensive printhead with pigmented ink, although Kyson claims that their pigmented K4 ink is harmless for the nozzles in a Canon printer....... So you can give it a try without any great dangers for your printer, except for throwing away a refilled clogged cartridge.

 

[fish]

Thanks for the idea.

I'll try checking what they have to offer for HP printers (PSC 2175 and OJ 7210). My son has Canon 3000 and 9000 using Procolor (alotofthings) ink. I should try experimenting with the Kirkland paper on his printer. I also have a Canon 6000 in the box, which I should be using for my photo printing. Actually, I'm getting to the point to send out my printing - Fuji Chrystal Archive paper may eliminate fading problems, or just stay with swellable paper.

 

[fadeaway]

Since you mention that you had good results with swellable paper, and it is known that the Kirkland paper is nanoporous, then I strongly suspect that it may be a gas fading issue. Ozone (O3) is the number one fade inducing enemy of current dye based inks and unfortunately nanoporous coatings are just that -porous. The O3 has an easy time permeating through to the ink layer down below.

The fact that partially covered areas are less affected still does not necessarily suggest light fading since these partial covers will reduce airflow which results in less exposure to O3 as well.

If you want to stick with dye based inks, and you want some longevity, then you should print onto swellable polymer type papers. This is even more important when you are printing using 3rd party inks since they are less resistant than OEM counterparts.

Some time ago several of us on this forum did collaborative testing of many ink/paper combinations. You can find these at the following in-forum links:

Ozone/UV
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/inkjet-fading1.php and http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/inkjet-fading.php

 

[fish]

fadeaway,

Thank you for the response. Yes, I followed the fade test previously performed and very much appreciate the effort.

You may be correct that the fading may be due to O3 rather than UV. Whatever the case, I was very alarmed at the rate of fading with the Kirkland paper and consider a 2 month print life as unacceptable. For doing my own printing , I suppose that using swellable paper is the way to go (in lieu of going to a pigment printer).

Another thought - I also printed on decent quality inkjet bond paper with little or no fading (not that I can percieve). Is photo paper more susceptible to fade problems?

 

[pharmacist]

fadeaway,

For doing my own printing , I suppose that using swellable paper is the way to go (in lieu of going to a pigment printer).

Don't combine swellable paper with pigment ink, since the particles are rarely absorbed down beneath the layer, giving you a rather dull and matte appearance on your prints and over time can flake off the surface. Strangely enough for pigment ink printers microporeus paper is the preferable one !!! You can, but pigment on swellable paper will give unsatisfactory results.

 

[Smile]

fadeaway,

For doing my own printing , I suppose that using swellable paper is the way to go (in lieu of going to a pigment printer).

Don't combine swellable paper with pigment ink, since the particles are rarely absorbed down beneath the layer, giving you a rather dull and matte appearance on your prints and over time can flake off the surface. Strangely enough for pigment ink printers microporeus paper is the preferable one !!! You can, but pigment on swellable paper will give unsatisfactory results.

Did you knwo that HP has a paper named Highg Gloss Photo Paper in rolls for plotters like 500PS etc. What is strange that these machines use black pigment ink and HP paper is swellable paper.

BTW I also find that dye ink works better at least on this paper.

 

[mikling]

With pigment ink, the fade resistance is principally within the ink but not totally, with dye based inks the fade resistance depends on the characteristics of the paper much much more. Thus if you expect the quoted fade resistance with dye based inks it is vital that you strictly adhere to using the paper ink combination and conditions of storage as described by the OEM. If you use a different paper, with OEM inks, for example, you may not get the expected results. You may achieve better results or worse results but you'll need to experiment to determine that. Keep that in mind because some users use OEM inks and an aftermarket paper thinking that it's all in the ink when it is not so.

Does a more expensive paper net you better results? No not necessarily. I have discovered a dollar store 4x6 swellable polymer paper where 20 sheets are one dollar. This gives better fade resistance than the Kirkland, but the color balance is not as good with standard profiles. For many users, the swellable polymers take far too long to dry. Thus I was able to obtain some HP premium glossy at giveaway prices as return clearouts. These are excellent papers but I found it took approximately three days to dry sufficiently where the swelling would disappear and a minimum of 24 hours before one should handle it. That probably was the reason for the return.

If fade resistance is a very important issue then consideration should be given to using pigmented inks. I have found this route is the most reliable avenue for fade resistance thus the reason why most professionals use pigment inks despite its drawbacks.

 

[fish]

mikling,

Yes, I have tried a few paper/ink combinations with the refill ink (InkTec). The paper 4x6 that is free with Photoshop Elements (Strathmore) also fades very quickly with InkTec - I was very disappointed with the results. I found the HP Vivera inks to be quite stable (much more than older OEM HP 57 inks).

Rather than going to OEM inks, I will stay with swellable paper for my own printing and most likely send printing out for more archival results - I don't think I do enough serious printing to warrant a pigment printer at this time.

 

[gregverena]

Apparently Kirkland paper is no longer made in Switzerland. Some users do or do not like the new one. I have a canon i9900 printer and use Media Street inks. Anyone use redriver paper? Any idea on what glossy paper to use with this combo. printer/ink? Kirkland semed to work well (before) now is unavailable online and we don't have a costco here anyway. Looking for reasonable fade resistance, good glass, and good colors.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Greg Sava