Fading Performance of HP Dye Inks

maximilian59

Printing Ninja
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Messages
95
Reaction score
122
Points
75
Location
Germany, Schwabmünchen
Printer Model
Canon Pro-1000, Pro-100s
More than 400 years is proven technology. The eldest handwriten german book is dated to the year 780. So with a good combination of paper and “ink/india ink” or comparable it is possible and nothing special. Also very old books with colored pictures and symbols are existing. So why should it be a problem to have pigmented inks with very high fading resistance?
 

The Hat

Printer VIP
Platinum Printer Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
13,546
Reaction score
7,182
Points
433
Location
Wicklow Ireland
Printer Model
Canon/3D, CR-10, CR-10S, KP3
Also very old books with colored pictures and symbols are existing. So why should it be a problem to have pigmented inks with very high fading resistance?
Very true about the pigment inks but they didn’t use paper back then, that’s why the books are still here..
 

Ink stained Fingers

Printer VIP
Platinum Printer Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
4,209
Reaction score
4,883
Points
313
Location
Germany
Printer Model
L310/805/1800, Pro7600, WF2010
and there is a slight difference for the longevity between mineral or polymer/organic pigments in colorants . Printer companies apparently know how their prints perform in 400 years but are not able ( or willing ?) to give their users any indication, the slightest level of information , any kind of rating, ranking how their inks perform in the next weeks and months - 664, 102, 106, 114 etc or Chromalife 100 or 100+ , GI-53 etc - nothing more than lifelong stability , for generations to come etc.
 

maximilian59

Printing Ninja
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Messages
95
Reaction score
122
Points
75
Location
Germany, Schwabmünchen
Printer Model
Canon Pro-1000, Pro-100s
Last edited:

Ink stained Fingers

Printer VIP
Platinum Printer Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
4,209
Reaction score
4,883
Points
313
Location
Germany
Printer Model
L310/805/1800, Pro7600, WF2010
That's all more or less interesting, inkjet printing was not used 1500 years ago, and the sea snail purple is not used in any Canon or Epson ink today, it was reserved to some higher ranks of people who could afford it. Canon, Epson etc are publishing various technical details of their products but nothing about the inks, about every user would accept that the longevity of an ink in a entry level printer is lower than in a highly acclaimed photo printer - what is so secret about that information - or whether the 664 and 102 Epson inks are the same but just use a different top on the bottles ? Car companies publish mileage information - o.k. - those numbers don't reflect actual usage very much - people know that - but you can at least compare data betweeen engines of the same manufacturer assuming they use the same tricks for all of them - but it's at least some information you can get - with reservation about the validity nevertheless
 

maximilian59

Printing Ninja
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Messages
95
Reaction score
122
Points
75
Location
Germany, Schwabmünchen
Printer Model
Canon Pro-1000, Pro-100s
Car companies publish mileage information - o.k. - those numbers don't reflect actual usage very much - people know that - but you can at least compare data betweeen engines of the same manufacturer assuming they use the same tricks for all of them - but it's at least some information you can get - with reservation about the validity nevertheless
You don’t know what they tested and which configuration of the car. And no, the Problems with the Diesel cars showed again, you can’t rely on the figures. They give you a rough estimation, that is all. Canon states on their site a Japanese standard for the tests.
Whether 664 and 102 are identical is not only the ink itself, it is also the coding as you described. It is the designation on the bottle. And if only a small amount of a substance in the ink is different to the other, than the inks are different, even if they have a comparable performance. Maybe the newer one of the both has cheaper substance in it or amount of dye is changed a little bit. That is development to get more money out of it. In my professional life as a developer there was always the questions how to make things cheaper for the next product. Any change let to a new part number.
And even if the inks are at least compatible, you would have to test the behavior if mixed in the tanks for physical and chemical problems, no change in densities and all these things to avoid user complaints.
I think that almost 100% of the users just by a printer and don’t bother about these things. For the amateurs and professionals there are the higher series normally.
Gladly we have now the choices to go cheap with OEM, but can’t expect highest quality for that.
 
Last edited:

Ink stained Fingers

Printer VIP
Platinum Printer Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
4,209
Reaction score
4,883
Points
313
Location
Germany
Printer Model
L310/805/1800, Pro7600, WF2010
So the printer manufacturers give enough reason to continue with our own testing
 

maximilian59

Printing Ninja
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Messages
95
Reaction score
122
Points
75
Location
Germany, Schwabmünchen
Printer Model
Canon Pro-1000, Pro-100s
So the printer manufacturers give enough reason to continue with our own testing
That’s the game. The whole discussion shows we don’t trust the manufacturers. At the moment i think there are only two testers, WIR and Aardenburg Imaging. Both do the tests different, but both show what’s good and what’s bad. This is the same like we do for free, because nobody wants to spend money for it.
 

ccc

Getting Fingers Dirty
Joined
Nov 19, 2018
Messages
31
Reaction score
14
Points
34
Printer Model
HP T120
Find a good Materials Testing lab and get accellerated testing on multiple samples. It won't tell you the absolute life on inks but they can tell you the relative differences, and which is best.
 
Top