Differences R3000 vs. P600 and Pro3880 and P800..kinda quirky

[Roy Sletcher]

Exactly the same printers with exactly the same ink, paper and profile as you have said won’t print exactly the same, but who amongst us would be able to see the difference, I for one wouldn't, it’s like the child and the emperors’ new cloths..

100% correct. Another of the "let's go around in circles and beat this subject to death."

The evidence is conclusive, and we are basically regurgitating what has been written on many other forums.

A very good explanatory 20 minute video in the subject linked below. It also includes practical advice on evaluating profiles:
http://digitaldog.net/files/Not_All_Profiles_are_created_equally.mp4


Another good site with much about Printers, Printing, and Profiling is Keith Cooper's:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/


Quotes from Keith Cooper postings on other forums (The first one validates The Hat's quote above):

In a field like colour management I always warn anyone of a perfectionist nature that the end result is getting something that looks good not some technical exercise.

"Perfection is the enemy of excellence" - an old engineering maxim that I find particularly relevant in making great looking prints and colour management.

Just sayin'

rs

 

[pharmacist]

Just something slightyly off-topic: can the new resetter for the P800 waste ink tank be used to reset the original P800 cartridges too ? A few years I discovered the possibility to reset my Epson Pro 3800/3880 cartridges with the waste ink tank resetter.

 

[The Hat]

OK, Here is a test that anyone can do, and you don’t have to be an expert with expensive equipment.

Now here’s the challenge, choose a good photo paper in two different sizes A3 and A4 or letter and 11” x 17” then split the larger sized sheet in half and use one half of that sheet along with the A4/ letter size sheet to print on, just two sheets.
You can use a smaller size paper if you don’t have large photo paper.

Pick a good photo from your own collection and choose whichever printer you have, set it up correctly to print for a good quality photo as you normally would do, and then print just two copies of the same photo.

Let the two prints dry for 15 minutes and then try and spot the differences, remember it’s the same printer, same ink, same settings but just a different orientation on one of the sheets.

Please come back with your findings..

 

[mikling]

100% correct. Another of the "let's go around in circles and beat this subject to death."

The evidence is conclusive, and we are basically regurgitating what has been written on many other forums.

A very good explanatory 20 minute video in the subject linked below. It also includes practical advice on evaluating profiles:
http://digitaldog.net/files/Not_All_Profiles_are_created_equally.mp4


Another good site with much about Printers, Printing, and Profiling is Keith Cooper's:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/


Quotes from Keith Cooper postings on other forums (The first one validates The Hat's quote above):

In a field like colour management I always warn anyone of a perfectionist nature that the end result is getting something that looks good not some technical exercise.

"Perfection is the enemy of excellence" - an old engineering maxim that I find particularly relevant in making great looking prints and colour management.

Just sayin'

rs

I think a key point is being missed.
There is the color engine in the color management software AND there is also the print engine in the printer. When you play with the engine using different variables many do not have access to, you start to develop "how" the printer wants to print. For example the Pro9500 and Pro-10 use VERY different engines. Same for the Pro-100 and Pro-9000. I am starting to see this similar aspect to the 3880 and P800. These are things these traditional writers do not do.
Print engine (inside the printer) and color engine are two different things. Nothing is written about print engines inside the printer and that is where people have overlooked and unpleasant surprises have been hiding. Like being told you bought a V8 and the hood is locked and inside is really a V6! The V6 however is smooth enough, you're unlikely to tell.
Both aspects we do not have access to. Note the errors in the last part of the first video. That is the work of the print engine! Nobody talks about that.

On the first video, three samples were shown. Two compared to the OEM output. What was not stated was which was closest to the screen! Was it the OEM? or was it the others. By using the softproofing function to edit you probably would be able to get all three to essentially match. Thus the ICC profile is a beginning point from which to edit from towards a print. It CAN be used as a point to print from like most use it.... One question would be whether via softproofing and using the canned profile, we could open the shadows back up or whether they were actually crushed within the profile!

 

[Roy Sletcher]

OK, Here is a test that anyone can do, and you don’t have to be an expert with expensive equipment.

Now here’s the challenge, choose a good photo paper in two different sizes A3 and A4 or letter and 11” x 17” then split the larger sized sheet in half and use one half of that sheet along with the A4/ letter size sheet to print on, just two sheets.
You can use a smaller size paper if you don’t have large photo paper.

Pick a good photo from your own collection and choose whichever printer you have, set it up correctly to print for a good quality photo as you normally would do, and then print just two copies of the same photo.

Let the two prints dry for 15 minutes and then try and spot the differences, remember it’s the same printer, same ink, same settings but just a different orientation on one of the sheets.

Please come back with your findings..

BILL'S BALLS

Here is an even better and more grueling test of the colour capability of your printer/software and profiles using a standardized image. It is based on the test known as BILL'S BALLS. It tests all facets of ink colour reproduction on your substrate of choice..

Some comments going back a couple of years, valuable supplementary information and links to files below:
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=79799.0


rs

 

[mikling]

Just something slightyly off-topic: can the new resetter for the P800 waste ink tank be used to reset the original P800 cartridges too ? A few years I discovered the possibility to reset my Epson Pro 3800/3880 cartridges with the waste ink tank resetter.

The retter I have has been supposedly able to reset the VLM even at 5% remaining according to one customer....he got a VLM chip back from the dead!

They use the same maintenance tank. Wanna bet the memory buffer has been increased?

 

[Roy Sletcher]

I think a key point is being missed.
There is the color engine in the color management software AND there is also the print engine in the printer. When you play with the engine using different variables many do not have access to, you start to develop "how" the printer wants to print. For example the Pro9500 and Pro-10 use VERY different engines. Same for the Pro-100 and Pro-9000. I am starting to see this similar aspect to the 3880 and P800. These are things these traditional writers do not do.
Print engine (inside the printer) and color engine are two different things. Nothing is written about print engines inside the printer and that is where people have overlooked and unpleasant surprises have been hiding. Like being told you bought a V8 and the hood is locked and inside is really a V6! The V6 however is smooth enough, you're unlikely to tell.
Both aspects we do not have access to. Note the errors in the last part of the first video. That is the work of the print engine! Nobody talks about that.

On the first video, three samples were shown. Two compared to the OEM output. What was not stated was which was closest to the screen! Was it the OEM? or was it the others. By using the softproofing function to edit you probably would be able to get all three to essentially match. Thus the ICC profile is a beginning point from which to edit from towards a print. It CAN be used as a point to print from like most use it.... One question would be whether via softproofing and using the canned profile, we could open the shadows back up or whether they were actually crushed within the profile!

Doesn't a well made profile filter out variables associated hardware manufacturing tolerances along with the proprietary colour reproduction methods, loosely known as the "colour engines"

In fact ACR give an adjustment tab allowing for the selection of their various colour engine renderings of the raw file. Too lazy to look it up right now, but it is on the main panel, and has 7 choices with names like Adobe standard, Camera Faithful, Camera Landscape, etc. Each varies the rendering of the raw data to a slightly different appearance.

rs

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

There is quite an interesting report out by Aardenburg about the light stability of Ultrachrome inks - K3 vs. P800 HD inks in this case - the new inks with the new Surecolor printer models - the new HD inks are better

http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/epson-uchd-versus-k3-inks/

http://news.epson.com/news/new-epso...ings-ever-achieved-for-epson-ultrachrome-inks

There are further references to tests with Canon pigment inks in comparison, you need to register to read all their test reports in detail

There are no tests yet to compare the new HD/P800 inks with the resp 3rd party refill inks by Marrutt and others, they may differ as well