I just felt like I had to vent. Back in my earlier days of using an Epson 1200 and then 1270 dye printers, I almost went crazy using a calibrated flatbed scanner and ColorVision's ProfilerPlus to create profiles. I'd been on the CMS bandwagon early on, keeping my Sony GDM-FW900 calibrated and trying my best to have a fully managed workflow. I tweaked the life out of those profiles until I was satisfied (never happy) with the result. One thing I was certain about was that I was never happy with the stock profiles supplied with the paper I used.
Well, time marches on and the 1270 was my last Epson dye printer. For my care in wanting accurate output I just didn't (and don't) print continuously enough to eliminate the nagging problem of clogged Epson printheads. I'm very happy with my Canon Pro9000 Mark II, and with the Spyder3Print SR I thought I could finally take the next leap to producing accurate output. Silly me. My first discovery was that even with the S3P I still have to tweak a created profile to get it good enough for me. S3P makes it a lot easier than it used to be, with the spectro and a better interface for adjusting a profile. The next thing I discovered was that even prints on the best papers - including Canon's own - are not stable enough to make a critical profile worth it.
If you've seen my other thread about the Epson Photo Paper and Canon ink, don't get thrown by that. It may be that the Epson paper may not be the best match for these inks and that's why it's doing what it's doing. In contrast to that, I've made sample prints using the manufacturer's supplied profiles and print setting recommendations on Canon Semi-Gloss, Moab Lasal, and Ilford Classic Pearl. These are all highly regarded semi-gloss type papers, and all have been well regarded when used with the Canon 9000. Here's what got me going - of the three only the stock profile suplied by Ilford was a close enough match after a 24 hour stabilization period to be considered "pretty good". Both the Moab and Canon supplied profiles produce output that is too Cyan. But that's only part of it. After I let the prints sit in my house for several days (which is maintained reasonably well temperature and humidity controlled) I discovered with the S3P spectro that the colors are migrating on a fairly continuing basis!
That I wasn't expecting. I knew that over time and expsoure to long conditions of sunlight and ozone that prints will change and fade (everybody should know that by now), but I'm talking over only several days with these prints stored in a dark cabinet! The change varies with respect to the paper, but as an example the Canon Semi-Gloss - printed using Canon's profile at highest quality via CS3 with Photoshop managing colors - went (read in Lab units) on the 'a' value from 1.46 after 24 hours to 0.63 after a couple of days. The Ilford 'b' value went from .28 (this again was after 24 hours) to 2.46! In checks across days it seems there is a regular migration over time.
So at what point are prints expected to be stable? Are they ever really stable? Should I just wait for when I like the color and then spray them with one of those sprays? Is there any hope that a print can look they way it's expected to for even a week?
Well, time marches on and the 1270 was my last Epson dye printer. For my care in wanting accurate output I just didn't (and don't) print continuously enough to eliminate the nagging problem of clogged Epson printheads. I'm very happy with my Canon Pro9000 Mark II, and with the Spyder3Print SR I thought I could finally take the next leap to producing accurate output. Silly me. My first discovery was that even with the S3P I still have to tweak a created profile to get it good enough for me. S3P makes it a lot easier than it used to be, with the spectro and a better interface for adjusting a profile. The next thing I discovered was that even prints on the best papers - including Canon's own - are not stable enough to make a critical profile worth it.
If you've seen my other thread about the Epson Photo Paper and Canon ink, don't get thrown by that. It may be that the Epson paper may not be the best match for these inks and that's why it's doing what it's doing. In contrast to that, I've made sample prints using the manufacturer's supplied profiles and print setting recommendations on Canon Semi-Gloss, Moab Lasal, and Ilford Classic Pearl. These are all highly regarded semi-gloss type papers, and all have been well regarded when used with the Canon 9000. Here's what got me going - of the three only the stock profile suplied by Ilford was a close enough match after a 24 hour stabilization period to be considered "pretty good". Both the Moab and Canon supplied profiles produce output that is too Cyan. But that's only part of it. After I let the prints sit in my house for several days (which is maintained reasonably well temperature and humidity controlled) I discovered with the S3P spectro that the colors are migrating on a fairly continuing basis!
That I wasn't expecting. I knew that over time and expsoure to long conditions of sunlight and ozone that prints will change and fade (everybody should know that by now), but I'm talking over only several days with these prints stored in a dark cabinet! The change varies with respect to the paper, but as an example the Canon Semi-Gloss - printed using Canon's profile at highest quality via CS3 with Photoshop managing colors - went (read in Lab units) on the 'a' value from 1.46 after 24 hours to 0.63 after a couple of days. The Ilford 'b' value went from .28 (this again was after 24 hours) to 2.46! In checks across days it seems there is a regular migration over time.
So at what point are prints expected to be stable? Are they ever really stable? Should I just wait for when I like the color and then spray them with one of those sprays? Is there any hope that a print can look they way it's expected to for even a week?
Believe me I'm not disagreeing; the time I spent in the old days with ProfilerPlus was painful. I'm actually quite happy with how close things are right out of the box - or profile - as it were compared to my time with Espon printers. For some reason I was never happy with how it shifted certain colors.