Canon PRO-200

The Hat

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This again is the classic case of.. If it ain’t broke, and then they go on to say “expands the range of colour reproduction achieved by its highly acclaimed predecessor – the PIXMA PRO-100S. (O’ ya…)

So what’s new with this Pro 200 (It’s Not a Imageprograf Pro for starters), maybe it’s just the new internal EPROM chip that won’t except resettable or one time chips without running a deep cleaning cycle before and after every print.

It’s just like its new Pro 300 brother, (Lipstick on a pig), both the Pro 10 and Pro 100 printers are more than capable of reproducing the highest quality prints, so who’ll need these new printers, this forum is dedicated to refilling so where does that leave us here.

If you want to refill then stay away from these two new interlopers, Canon will tie you in knots with the little tricks they have up their sleeves, you can of course buy the carts and swap the chips and use them in your Pro 100, (If the carts will fit in your machine)

I have been told that all these new printer models make better prints, O’ do they !, I have a iP9950 that can print beautifully, (No chips on CLl-8 carts).. No wait a minute the Pro 9000 can print better, or it that the Pro 100, wrong again it’s the all new Pro 200…

My vote goes to whatever current model printer you have now, because you can probably refill it and most likely also reset the waste ink counter, so ask yourself can these new printers offer any of the qualities that you already have…
 

mikling

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This again is the classic case of.. If it ain’t broke, and then they go on to say “expands the range of colour reproduction achieved by its highly acclaimed predecessor – the PIXMA PRO-100S. (O’ ya…)

So what’s new with this Pro 200 (It’s Not a Imageprograf Pro for starters), maybe it’s just the new internal EPROM chip that won’t except resettable or one time chips without running a deep cleaning cycle before and after every print.

It’s just like its new Pro 300 brother, (Lipstick on a pig), both the Pro 10 and Pro 100 printers are more than capable of reproducing the highest quality prints, so who’ll need these new printers, this forum is dedicated to refilling so where does that leave us here.

If you want to refill then stay away from these two new interlopers, Canon will tie you in knots with the little tricks they have up their sleeves, you can of course buy the carts and swap the chips and use them in your Pro 100, (If the carts will fit in your machine)

I have been told that all these new printer models make better prints, O’ do they !, I have a iP9950 that can print beautifully, (No chips on CLl-8 carts).. No wait a minute the Pro 9000 can print better, or it that the Pro 100, wrong again it’s the all new Pro 200…

My vote goes to whatever current model printer you have now, because you can probably refill it and most likely also reset the waste ink counter, so ask yourself can these new printers offer any of the qualities that you already have…
Well actually these newer printers will save the user money in some cases. Like for Chiropractor bills when you lifted the big heavy old boxes. And Yeah, less waste for the environment, ya know you have to be responsible for the environment.

But wait that dinky screen is sure cute. Those old printers were kinda lacking bling.

But seriously, Canon is supposed to now allow 12x12 and 8x8 borderless printing which is supposed to be a huge factor in crafting which is a hobby of many of the female kind and some males, I actually did not know of this. They might have something here. Remember I talked about a reboot of the XP15000.....we'll see if Epson follows along on this as well.

Then there is the borders on fine art which is a double edged sword,

So yeah, you're right Hat. But remember we are old men who complain of change and we tend to do that more
frequently as time passes.
 

stratman

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I asked the same store to reserve 2- Pro-200s when they arrive in the future. One for me and another for chip resetter R&D.
:thumbsup

A tip of the hat to those creative entrepreneurs and a :tongue to the 'end is nigh' crowd.

Time will tell.
 

mikling

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:thumbsup

A tip of the hat to those creative entrepreneurs and a :tongue to the 'end is nigh' crowd.

Time will tell.
In fact the "end" is here depending on how it is defined.
I will give very low odds that the chip is resettable. It is simply too easy to "fix" that but stupider things have been done by Canon like the Fine Art Margins which was a real downer since over 10 years ago.
However judging by the PGI-280/CLI-281 there is nothing except one time chips. If Canon adopts a fusing type arrangement within their memory space. It does not need more encryption at all.

So indeed the end of the resetter is likely here. Hat is right there.

However given the design of the sponge type chip, we can override the chip. Yeah that will allow the consumer to fully use up every single drop at their own risk of damaging printheads. However, if Canon was to continue an ink count past the override, how far should they allow the override to work. Double the normal chip capacity, 50%? If they did this and then decided to only allow 50% override then boom destroy the chip, then they're OK. Or maybe a 100% override so that they can say beyond they allow refilling. So ain't over till we know to what extent an override works, is it like the old days of indefinite or limited. Look to Epson to see what Epson arrives at. They've chosen complete stoppage. But there is third party firmware hacks that essentially allow the printer to work like a Canon override, no ink levels but allow functionality. I look to Epson stopping direct access to printer firmware except to "connected" apps. If they don't then there is something we are not aware of. Did Canon not revise the service software a bit to make access less likely. Is this a trend?

And yeah,we are still not sure the effect of this on cleaning cycles.
 

stratman

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In fact the "end" is here depending on how it is defined.
In the US, a company can recommend using only OEM replacement parts/ but they cannot force the use of only OEM parts. For instance, using non-OEM oil in your car cannot by itself void warranty. See Moss Magnuson Act. A company may enforce copyright, something aftermarket printer cartridges have encountered. For chips, I believe the legalities pertain to how an aftermarket chip, or resetter, was engineered, eg reverse engineering being a legal sticking point.

Seems that every time a new printer drops someone puts on their robe and sandals and goes down to the street corner to say the apocalypse is here. Every time.

And it is not that manufacturers' couldn't make things bleaker for consumers. But they haven't gone full metal jacket so far. Why? To the apocalypse crowd, every new printer is "it", game over.

One day they may be correct, but they've said it every time before and been wrong, so their correctness one day is hardly a revelation but more torture porn over the years.

How about we wait and see. The enterprising folks in China or wherever typically come up with a workaround, even for Epson and HP's doomsday chips. Doesn't Canon's software that scolds you if you use non-OEM cartridges have a fix? (uninstall it? Don't use that software?)

My own experience helping a friend with his HP printer is an example of the cat and mouse game between OEM and aftermarket over chipped cartridge functionality. My friend's printer would not work with a local company's aftermarket chipped cartridge he bought. Seems HP had blocked its use in his printer. The owner of the aftermarket cartridge business said to update the HP firmware from the HP website. Once done the cartridge worked. Now if only we could turn water into wine... (technically we can - water the grape plants in your garden, harvest, stomp, bottle and enjoy)

Maybe HP could permanently block use of aftermarket cartridges. Maybe not legally. HP appears to have acquiesced on the issue of my friend's printer. For now. Or, maybe the aftermarket manufacturer worked fast to develop and manufacturer a proper chip. Doubtful. More likely HP avoided a class action lawsuit by caving. Again.

In the US, one cannot block a consumer from using legally engineered and implemented aftermarket parts.

Whatever obstacles printer manufacturers' place in the way, someone will find a path through or around. It is man made, after all, not some alien technology too advanced for any human to comprehend. Why else would @mikling state he wants a Pro-200 for chip R&D (and then curiously backtrack) but to begin the process of a workaround?

The limiting factor is return on investment. If there is sufficient money to be made then someone will create a chip workaround.

Unless someone just likes the intellectual pursuit. :woot
 

The Hat

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Seems that every time a new printer drops someone puts on their robe and sandals and goes down to the street corner to say the apocalypse is here. Every time.
I didn’t say that, but I did say that Canon will punish users who wishes to exercise their constructional right and use 3rd party inks, this in turn can cause excessive amounts of ink been sent to the waste ink pads, which will in turn need a service call or a new printer !

On another note:- they can just save themselves all the hassle by sticking with OEM inks by taking out a second mortgage to fund the appetite of these beasts and pretend they have the best photos ever…

The best and cheapest option is to pick up a few extra spare printers and print heads of your choice for the future, this will allow them to use their own brand of 3rd party inks and enjoy the saving for many years to come.. It’s not rocket science..
P.S. It’s something like most Mac owners, that instantly upgrade to the latest O/S on its release and then wonder why their printers stop working.. Don’t change just for the sake of change..!
 

stratman

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I didn’t say that
Didn't say you did, sunshine. :hugs

Do we have proof that the Pro line of printers - all of them - perform extra waste ink dumps when one refills, regardless of the method of overcoming the native chip functions? I don't recall this has been established. Difficult to establish if we don't know the maintenance schedule.

Maybe mikling can keep track of maintenance functions on his new Pro-300 over the next few months. :fl
 

palombian

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... But there is third party firmware hacks that essentially allow the printer to work like a Canon override, no ink levels but allow functionality. ...
Since - as you told many times and I agree - Canon is always one step behind Epson in refilling countermeasures, the obvious solution is a firmware hack for the PRO-200 and 300.
 

mikling

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Since - as you told many times and I agree - Canon is always one step behind Epson in refilling countermeasures, the obvious solution is a firmware hack for the PRO-200 and 300.
What firmware hack? The hack would be to slip in code that took chips with identical capacities. I.e CLI-8 comes to mind. So delete and enter code that takes CLI-8 chips as use them for the CLI-42 or CLI-65. So anybody know how to hack Canon firmware? Same for the Pro-300. Use chips from PGI-9 or PGI-72 or CLI-8 and CLI-42 ans a couple extra colors.
This hack is different from an Epson hack which leaves you with no ink levels estimators.
 

mikling

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About the Magnusson thingie, it is incumbent for the aftermarket to figure out the secret to make chips. What if the difficulty is so high BUT STILL POSSIBLE that the aftermarket is unable due to resources to come up with a solution. Then the mfr is clear of any legal issues. I suspect Epson has this situation.
 

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