Canon Imageprograf TC 21 /Lucia TD inks and harvesting inks from 300ml/ 700 ml cartridges

[hdtvjeff]

I really do not know and don't trust AI completely

The brand new Canon ImagePrograf TC 21 is a CMYK 24 inch plotter. I would love to now if it's possible that these inks are LUCIA TD inks. The TC 21 uses PFI 050 70 ML bottles to pour into tanks, NO carts. They are expensive at $70 each for each of the FOUR 70 ml bottles. There are TM and TZ series 5 color printers that are LUCIA TD specific in cartridges up to 700 ml in size. Love to siphon those OEM carts.

Canon didn't say yes or no but I get the feeling its possible.

Canon in 2023 also updated Magenta in their TM/TZ lines in one case going from a PFI-30M to a PFI-31M as magenta seems to be improved recently.

Is it possible the TC 21 printer does use LUCIA TD inks though not stated and siphoning ink from TM/TZ plotter printer series big carts would work?

So basically asking if TC 21 inks are the same as the latest TM/ TZ ink sets but just not stated as such since Canon would lose profits from people not buying their bottles for the TC 21

Thanks in advance and much appreciated for any advice, first hand experience or help

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I don't see a reason why Canon would hide Lucia inks and not telling you the benifits of that ink: I tather would assume that the TC-21 inks PFI-050 are closer in properties to the GI-56 135ml bottled inks of the GX series office oriented printers. But it's up to you to use other inks in a TC-21, you just need to run some tests - e.g. gamuts of profiles , gloss performance etc on your papers.
Pricing - Canon offers a rather low unit price and high ink prices, Epson does the opposite with the TC-3100(X) - a higher unit price and lower ink prices

 

[hdtvjeff]

Thank you, it seems the GX series uses a hybrid of Pigment and Dye based not all pigment like the TC 20/21 models

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

Thank you, it seems the GX series uses a hybrid of Pigment and Dye based not all pigment like the TC 20/21 models

all colors of the GI-56 inks for the GX.... series printers are pigment inks

https://www.druckerchannel.de/devic...axify_gx6550#verbrauchsmaterialien_reichweite

 

[hdtvjeff]

all colors of the GI-56 inks for the GX.... series printers are pigment inks

https://www.druckerchannel.de/devic...axify_gx6550#verbrauchsmaterialien_reichweite

In newer ink set released at the time the TC21 was released we now have a newer Magenta color in Their TX TX and TM ink sets which are closer, I think than the GI-56 series

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

You have quite a range of inks you can use, but you would need to run some tests - profiles to verify all your assumptions.

 

[hdtvjeff]

Indeed. Just wish i knew for sure if the Canaon Imageprograg TC 21 used Lucia TD inks as AI says but Canon won't verify

CMYK should be easier to match than 12 color pro ink sets

Thank you !

 

[hdtvjeff]

all colors of the GI-56 inks for the GX.... series printers are pigment inks

https://www.druckerchannel.de/devic...axify_gx6550#verbrauchsmaterialien_reichweite

YOU ARE RIGHT, 100 percent Right. the GI-26 is IDENTICAL to PFI 050. Same ink. 132ML bottles, half the cost of pfi 050 70 mml bottles

EDIT: Another web source says similar NOT identical

FROM AI:

Yes, you can siphon Canon GI-26 ink and use it to refill a Canon PFI-050 bottle because both are pigment-based inks and compatible in terms of chemistry. In fact, many third-party vendors market the same refill ink for both series.

Key Compatibility Points

• Ink Type: Both the GI-26 and PFI-050 inks are genuine Canon pigment-based inks, which are designed for durability, water resistance, and crisp text.
• Chemistry: The underlying ink chemistry is compatible, which prevents adverse reactions that could clog the printhead or damage the printer (a risk when mixing different ink types like dye and pigment inks).
• Printer Compatibility: The printers that use these inks (MAXIFY GX series for GI-26 and imagePROGRAF TC-20/TC-20M for PFI-050) are both designed for thermal pigment 4-color inkjet systems.
• Refilling: The original bottles are designed with a specialized "keyed" nozzle shape to fit the correct ink tank easily and without a mess. Siphoning and transferring the ink into an empty PFI-050 bottle, which retains its correct "key," is a viable method for refilling the intended printer.

Considerations

• Siphoning: You will need a clean syringe or a similar tool to safely transfer the ink without spills or introducing contaminants.
• Volume Differences: The GI-26 bottles (e.g., 132ml color, 167ml black) typically have a larger volume than the PFI-050 bottles (70ml). This means you may have leftover ink, which should be stored properly.
• Warranty: While the inks are chemically compatible, using ink transferred from a different series bottle (even genuine Canon ink) is a modification not officially supported by Canon, and any damage caused by the refilling process itself might not be covered under warranty.

In summary, the inks are interchangeable in terms of composition and function, making your proposed plan feasible for refilling your PFI-050 system.


Thank you !!

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

The 'Canon TC20/21 - same with the Epson TC3100(X) - are not advertised as photo printers at all, so there is no reason for Canon to run such printer with inks from higher end photo pinters with more colors. There are other parameters for an ink running for office type applications - and not photo printing - like a shorter drying time which reduces the transmission of inks from one sheet to another during duplex printing, or scratch resistance could be different. A shorter drying time plays a role as well when it comes to the waiting time before you can laminate a print wihout a risk that the glue disolves the coating and separates the coating from the paper carrier.
That's all points commented by Epson or Canon in various postings - but more elaborate in marketing speech.
Such parameters don't affect the ink colors. And Canon or Epson nevertheless let you print photos as well and offer some parameters in the driver for their photo/glossy papers incl. icc profiles - a printed pixel does not know if it belongs to a technical drawing or a photo.
You are planning to go a non-standard route with your inks - so you should run some tests which of your selections give you the best results . And be aware that the paper type plays an important role for the quality
of print output - in combination with a particular ink.

(I'm not impressed by what AI - whatever engine - is providing you in this case)

Ink numbers change by business regeion by Canon inks and printer model names - GI-26 = GI-56 - for lots of products

 

[hdtvjeff]

Yikes! I really thought these CMYK inks from GI 26 bottles was the perfect refill for PFI 050 CMYK bottles

Now, I am not sure, not sure at all

Thanks for the heads up. This needs to be thought out more, much more. I don't want to waste money and possibly damage my new Canon TC 21

Nano inks does sell inks made for both though (4 Liter ND® Pigment Ink for Canon PFI-050 iPF TC-20/M & GI-26 MAXIFY GX6020/7020)

Thank you !