Buying a Canon Printer?

[roytje]

Really? I was under the impression that Canon tests were different from the Epson ones, or at least that was true when I was looking at this 6+ months back.

You're probably right, tests are (mostly) based on 5% coverage but not yet on ISO norms.


There was an interesting thing at the Epson site about the ink topic:

"Epson uses internal test standards for inkjet yield testing because there are not yet any
international or common industry standards. Epson fully supports the efforts of the
International Standards Organization (ISO) to develop such standards, which may be finalized
in 2006. Epson will implement the new ISO standards after they are finalized. In the absence
of international standards, Epson encourages users to consider independent third party data
and to use manufacturers data primarily as a reference point between printers from the same
manufacturer."

 

[websnail]

That's interesting..

In truth I wouldn't mind finding out how much work different printers do between each other but the hastle is that you have to use the OEM cartridges to do it and frankly the cost of that is just prohibitive... that and I'm not overly keen on the fact that you end up wasting a lot of paper in the process..

Still n'all might be necessary..

 

[vkakula]

Hey websnot why do you assume to be some sort of authority on subjects discussed in these forums? Why is it up to you to harass first time posters and judge their intelligence? Most of us regular visitors to these forums (like myself) could care less that incartek posted what we already know. Yet you as youve done in numerous other forums and posts have to chime in and show how little you know. I wasnt going to register and post except that youre making me nauseous with this nonsense.

On the subject matter, I am using an MP500 with OEM Canon inks and an iP4200 with refill inks. After voiding the warranty I just make it a habit to check the ink level once a week and have no problems using third party ink.

What is the big deal with the chip? Who cares that its there! Its not that Canon has forbade the use of third party ink because you can as I have. What youre too lazy to check the ink level every once in a while? Give me a break. Or is it that you want to use some cheap trashy ink and if perchance it ruins the printhead play stupid so Canon will replace the printhead as if it were their problem?

The way I see it, with the iP4200 going for $80 after rebates ($60-$65 from my sources) if the printhead burns up I pay another $60 for a new box with a new head and a new set of inks. Ill turn around and sell the inks for $60 and get the head for free. You follow?

 

[fotofreek]

vkakula - no need for the offensive, accusitive start to your post. This forum respects all participants' views, pleasantly stated. Using terms like "lazy" and "stupid" don't contribute to the group's knowledge. The experience you report is a valuable addition to a view on refilling ip4200 printers. Welcome aboard, as long as you maintain a civil, informative approach.

 

[websnail]

Hey websnot why do you assume to be some sort of authority on subjects discussed in these forums? Why is it up to you to harass first time posters and judge their intelligence? Most of us regular visitors to these forums (like myself) could care less that incartek posted what we already know. Yet you as youve done in numerous other forums and posts have to chime in and show how little you know. I wasnt going to register and post except that youre making me nauseous with this nonsense.

Abuse aside... You're right in part.. but if you read the first post and actually take a look at what's been posted by me and by Incartek you realise I've spent a shed load of time on the topic of Canon chipped cartridges and at one point there was a very real worry that Canon had pulled a stunt that would block refilling in certain circumstances. The problem hasn't repeated but I did my damndest to chase it down and I wasn't alone at all nor am I claiming sole credit or any such stupidity.

Incartek posted a poorly written piece that contradicts itself in a number of places and just seems to be so much spam.. then shows his colours by posting a "I'm selling compatibles" post.. but you're right, not my role to scream spam and I'm dialling back on that so fair cop in part.

On the subject matter, I am using an MP500 with OEM Canon inks and an iP4200 with refill inks. After voiding the warranty I just make it a habit to check the ink level once a week and have no problems using third party ink.

Agreed, for someone who gets into a routine and can refill, the whole chip thing is not a major problem but taken outside of the careful user scenario, it's easy to see that people will forget, burn out their heads or at least stress them and reduce the life of their printhead..

What is the big deal with the chip? Who cares that its there! Its not that Canon has forbade the use of third party ink because you can as I have. What youre too lazy to check the ink level every once in a while? Give me a break. Or is it that you want to use some cheap trashy ink and if perchance it ruins the printhead play stupid so Canon will replace the printhead as if it were their problem?

I disagree with this... The whole point of the chip is that people can't "play the stupid" anymore.. Unless your chip is still registering as an OEM with standard Canon ink they aren't going to replace your printhead, just send the printer back. Canon will simply check the EEPROM and tell you your printer is out of warranty. Granted you may well be able to argue the toss if the problem is a paper feed issue but a burned out printhead on a "responsibility accepted for non Canon ink" marked printer.. forget it!

It'd help if you actually read about what I use with my Canons and how I set them up for non-OEM inks... At least have the sense to read what I do, where and how before spouting off about my posts everywhere.. I use CIS kits (home-made ones) so ink levels are something I check in the external reservoir bottles, not the cartridges. Lord knows I go on about CIS's often enough!

The way I see it, with the iP4200 going for $80 after rebates ($60-$65 from my sources) if the printhead burns up I pay another $60 for a new box with a new head and a new set of inks. Ill turn around and sell the inks for $60 and get the head for free. You follow?

I'm not thick and neither are you but like I said the changes in the Canon printers are not welcome ones... It's easier to fry a printhead now as already noted. A lot of people will make mistakes with refilling and learn some painful lessons and as I've said in another thread I don't completely hate Canon as an end user myself but I can well understand why many users are not welcoming the change.

Anyway, the bottom line is that I agree with some of your sentiments, disagree with others, and could do without the abuse.. If you've spent time learning about the issues, looking for solutions and are willing to share there's plenty of people who'll listen, myself included..

 

[jackson]

If you wouldn't say it to someones face, don't say it on a forum.
Schoolboy name calling is the bane of the internet and transforms the lighthearted exchange of ideas into a dismal experience.
That's why the Moderator (a thankless task) has to keep a firm, even handed grip, on posted messages, lest anarchy erupt.

 

[fish]

vkakula,

What happens when you need new cartridges? Will you pay for the new 4200, keep the ink and sell the printer on eBay?

I personally don't care about a warrantee but would like to see a replacement cartridge at a fair price.

Go back and read what websnail has posted in the past vs "buy my stuff spam".

 

[websnail]

I personally don't care about a warrantee but would like to see a replacement cartridge at a fair price.

As it goes fish... ultimately a refiller does need a new set of cartridges they can use while their original set are purged (as older Canon carts can be - see Grandad, Osage, etc's copious posts).. But thankfully there may well be alternative cartridges available given the recent appearance of "chip transfer required" alternatives.

Most of those seem to be of the "ink included" variety but you could always purge the ink from those (unless you trust it of course ) and then refill them with your preferred ink.. but of course remember to move the chips to the appropriate cartridge in the process.

The only problem is that you could of course be interrupted and transfer the wrong chip over to the wrong cart, get confused or the like and then muck things up... In fact this chip to colour question (ie: does it matter?) is one I'm waiting to see answered soon..

Anyways, it seems you don't desperately need another set of Canon carts but you always need a complete set of chips.

 

[fish]

Exactly - I am waiting for the dust to clear (regarding the chipped Canons). I was lucky to find a Canon 6000 at CompUSA to add to my 3000 and 9900 and will be refilling all.

 

[vkakula]

Earlier this year I had attempted to reverse engineer the communication protocol between the printer and the cartridges. The hardware interface consists of +3.3V power, Gnd, a 1 Mhz clock line, and a data line. The data line is bidirectional and the comm protocol appears to be that the printer sends some encrypted command and the corresponding cartridge (chip) replies with an answer, the data line goes low for x-number of clocks before the procedure is repeated for each of the five cartridges. I havent tried swapping chips or cartridges but know that so long as there are 5 unique (by color) chips in the carrier the printer has no way of knowing whether you populated the cartridges correctly. If you have 2 cyan chips in the carrier and in turn are missing a color then the printer will refuse to print as its message to your missing chip will not be returned for from the printers perspective it is as if youre missing a cartridge in that position or using a chipless cartridge.

To circumvent keeping track of chips it should be possible to affix the chips to the carrier using a strong adhesive. One has to be careful with this but once this is done youd be free to use the newly available Cli-8 generics as mentioned by websnail that are shipped with "chip transfer required" instructions. I particularly like the aftermarket cartridge blanks that are being sold with the plastic sealing screw and have been told that Cli-8 compatibles like those will be available by the end of this month.