Building a pure B&W printer... advice needed

[fotofreek]

Yes, I still have my library of hundreds of vinyl records - classics, jazz, rock, country, movie soundtracks, etc. (including Paul Simon's Kodachrome.) I've transferred several to CD's with a little tweaking to minimize pops and crackles. We went from very small transistor radios to audio tape walkman to cd walkman to mp3 players - loading vinyl or cd albums onto the computer for playlists and use by DJ's. So my nephew who does DJ gigs insists on using vinyl for parties with dual turntables to mix. Some DJ's who just play straight tunes arrive with little more than a laptop, small amp, and speakers. My nephew comes with tons of equipment and a case full of vinyl!

 

[ghwellsjr]

Want to really blow the newbies away? I could show them some fine color pix made on 10 ASA Kodachrome, some handheld with available light. Kind of like putting a fairly new driver of a modern auto transmission car into my old stick shift 60 Porsche roadster or 48 stick shift plymouth - no power steering or brakes, no power windows or power door locks, and forget cds, tape players, or premier sound stereo systems in those cars. Nonetheless, I'd like to have both of them back again!

Fotofreek, I think if you try hard you can think of when cars didn't have air conditioners, turn signals, reverse lights, or seat belts, and heaters and radios were an option. But they did come with fog lights.

 

[BWlover]

Dear all, many thanks for your advice and contributions!!!
I would love to have a fast good laser printer which could do pure B&W photos with deep blacks and high resolution, but I don't think there is any yet that can match a inkjet. And the size would still be an issue for me.
(Also, I am not that 'nostalgic' about B&W: never really used B&W film and started photography with a distinct interest in colour. Just discovered that some images are so powerful and interesting when using B&W that I feel myself drawn to it more and more....)

Just to let you know how I am doing so far. Unfortunately I can't seem to get any HP gray inks around here. I finally found some gray ink for CLI-521gray replacement but it only comes in one tint (and in 1 liter quantities) so I am hesitant about it.

Now the good news. I have not printed anything yet, because I have not collected all the materials. Also I plan to print with the original catridges which are in there until the first one runs out (a few pages would do the trick: still a shame to waste...).
What I did find out was that the dilution does not give any strange colour issues. If you dilute it (I now used 1.5% isopropanol and 1% of propylene glycol in distilled water) it becomes very purple indeed, so I thought it would fail. However, if you paint this on photo paper (I used some cheap GP-501) it is very neutral AFTER drying (certainly NOT before!!!). In daylight maybe with the slightest hint of magenta but that is so minor that I don't even know whether it is real.
My reasoning is: if you dilute with something that is basically used for cleaning printheads and you are only diluting it should not be a problem. The dye seems to dissolve very well indeed.
I noticed that there is a distinct ammonia smell to the ink as well, so I will add this to the mix at 1%.
Still doubting a bit about the propylene glycol: something of an humectant to avoid the ink drying out on the print head seems to be desirable, but I don't think it will be removed entirely from the print itself. It is of course only a VERY small amount (something less than 8 microliters per A4 if I estimate it correctly) but it won't evaporate readily (having a boiling point of 187 celcius, around 450 K) and might give more moisture sensitivity and a contribution to the slight colour shift...
If you have suggestions based on your cleaner solvent mix, those would be welcome!

I am planning to use Inktec CLI-8 ink. After reading on the internet, I think it should be OK for both BCI-6 and CLI-521 (the dye version, not the pigment catridge). Anyone has any thoughts on this? Maybe better to post this question in the refill-section...?

 

[ghwellsjr]

If you're talking about using the same color dye inks to refill your BCI-6 and later cartridges (Inktec or otherwise), you really should get some specifically for each type of cartrdge. I know that the magenta and cyan have both changed when Canon went from the BCI-6 to the CLI-8. It is noticeable to me and I'm color blind.

 

[BWlover]

Yeah, I would like to, but around here I can't buy ink specifically for CLI-521 cartridges from Inktec (they have them in the US though). But I saw many shops sellings inks suitable (according to them) for CLI-8/CLI-521. And likewise, I saw I report (will have to search for the link) where it is claimed there are no big issues using CLI-8 inks in BCI-6 cartridges... Don't know wether that is correct.
I hope that the color change won't be beyond correction. I don't mind doing some changes in printer monitor or even a standard curve just before printing. Don't mind some experimentation either. Or some minor color changes (my monitor is lousy anyhow and I now get prints which are not a perfect match, although I use colour profiles, original inks, paper profiles etc.). Like I said before: I am quite tolerant when it comes to colour, as long as it is not in my B&W prints...
I DO mind about the quality of the ink.
Strangely enough, there is Inktec BCI-6 replacement ink available, but the black they claim suitable for both BCI-6 and BCI-3e. That can't be true right? BCI-3e should be pigmented...?

 

[pharmacist]

BWlover,

about the Inktec BCI-6 refill: it is right about the BCI-6 and BCI-3: the BCI-3 happens to be the older serie of dye cartridges BCI-3C/M/Y and the pigmented thick BCI-3eBK and the last one is special one. So the BCI-6 is meant for the dye cartridges only for both the BCI-6 and the BCI-3 series. The BCI-3eBK pigment thick cartridge is another story and needs pigment ink.

 

[ghwellsjr]

Yes, the BCI-3eBK for the wider cartridge needs to be pigment but don't buy any of Inktec's BCI-3eBk ink. I have been using it for years for both my printers and about ten other printers that I supplied re-inked cartridges for my friends. The purge units on every one of these printers clogged up and disabled the printers from working, all within the span of about six months. Since then, I have purchased ten more identical used printers, which did not use the Inktec pigment black ink, and none of them of them have clogged purge units.

I wanted to do a test comparing the Inktec BCI-3eBk to their PGI-5Bk ink to see if the problem still exists but the only supplier in the USA can no longer get the older ink. They claim it didn't sell and was taken off the market. It would have made me feel a lot more confident if Inktec had admitted that the ink had a problem and that it was fixed for their PGI-5Bk. I still plan to test the Inktec PGI-5Bk ink to see if it has the same problem but until I can confirm this, I will not be using it in any of my printers and I would advise the same for you and anyone else.

In the meantime, I am using Image Specialist pigment black ink. I still use Inktec's dye inks in the little syringe/bottles. I think they are perfect for refilling with the German method.

 

[dugkeithdale]

Try going to paulroark.com he has lots of information on his site about B+W printing. I use his system in a cheap Epson D92. You put pure black in the K cart and a 13.5% dilution in the CMY positions, it works beautifully and is very cheap to run.

The clear base that is used for the dilution is simply a mixture of distilled water, glycerine and wetting agent, his site gives the ratios.

 

[BWlover]

Well, it was more work than expected - and the first results were really TERRIBLE - but it now seems to be working quite well! And I must say I learned a lot about inkjet printing.
The first mistake I made was with the dilutions: I painted the ink on photo paper. Original and dilution series. Then selected them with a digital camera in black and white mode. It sounds good, but it is difficult to make a uniform layer apparently. All the inks were way to diluted. E.g. Magenta 1:12 went down to 1:3.
Second thing that turned out difficult was to clean the cartridges. I used the Durchstichmethod to fill the empty chambers (still tricky to position the needle and not ruin the sponge...). I found out that filling them and then blowing them empty on the upper venting hole works quite well. Rinsing water/ solvent through it, is NOT smart: it gets cleaner much more quickly, but I think the sponge is deformed, because initially these cartridges leaked a lot (seems to be OK now though).
Third thing that I found out is absolutely necessary is to add a bit of soap (I used dishwasher, just a few drops on ~100ml) to lower the surface tension: otherwise the ink remains in the inkchamber and sometimes does not get to the sponge!

Well, after all of this, it seems to be working quite fine. Still have to correct the intensity of PM, PC and Y somewhat. Cyan (at 1:5) and magenta (1:3) seem to be correct. I am using Inktec CLI-8 replacement color. This gives a slightly warm tint on GP-501 paper (did not try PR-201 yet) and a bit greenish on High Resolution paper. It is amazing how much the ink color changes depending on paper type.
I am also still considering using a slighter cooler tint. Maybe the original BCI-6 Inktec (which I could not get at first, but I have a supplier now): I think that one will be too blue, but a mix of the two might be perfect.
Of course, the question now is how long the system will be running correctly, whether there will be clogging etc...
As soon as I have tested a bit more and optimized the whole thing, I will post the full recipe...

 

[ghwellsjr]

Now I'm confused. You started out saying you wanted to dilute some bulk dye black ink to refill all the color dye ink cartridges in your printer so that it would produce good black and white photos. You mention different using different replacement color inks and getting different tints in your photos. So are you diluting only black ink or are you dilluting color inks?