A Glance at the New Canon 200 & 300... !

stratman

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Here's an interesting tidbit.

Some printers use a capacitor to keep a temporary charge instead of a battery. Yet, when the capacitor is not properly functioning for whatever reason the LED screen says to replace the battery. Tech Support says no battery. Need to replace the whole board. Or you can plug the printer in and recharge the capacitor to resume retention of date and time. (will need to reset the date and time each time this occurs)

https://community.usa.canon.com/t5/...u-change-the-battery-in-a-MF4770n/td-p/163126

However, a Canada Canon support page says there IS a battery:

This firmware includes the following corrections and improvements: V15.04 1. Added support for Canon Mobile Scanning for Business. V05.01 1. The following problems have been resolved for imageCLASS MF4890dw/MF4880dw/MF4770n. (1)A problem that causes user data, such as address book data, to be erased and the menu keys to stop functioning when the power is turned on while the product's internal battery is depleted.

https://canoncanada.custhelp.com/ap...f4880dw/mf4770n-firmware-update-tool-(v15.04)


Capacitor does not equal battery though both store and deliver energy.

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/explainer-batteries-capacitors
 

stratman

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that’s fact the 200 /300 machines will face the same faith in the same situation as their older sisters, without power life expires..
News to me. What is your source for this?
 

The Hat

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News to me. What is your source for this ?
I have covered this already in earlier posts and I gained this knowledge from Canon Technical staff when they were reprogramming my Pro 1 live memory after I had stupidly removed the wiring loom to the battery logic board.

The source is logic, Canon don’t put components into a printer and not utilise there full capacity, these two printers have a higher level of awareness than any other, so it stands to reason, they will employ this AI against any or all intruders.

This new AI can’t remain active without a source of power, so it’s logical to say if you remove the battery then you blank the active memory, and it then locks the user out. (Game over)

These machines has two type of memory, the normal memory that stores the printers everyday functions and the AI memory which monitors and records all activity, it plays no active part in the running of the printer.
 

mikling

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In today's world it is highly unlikely that the computer firmware would be stored in memory that needed battery power to retain the operating instructions or firmware. It is more likely that NVRAM is used. Epson uses this and is a common industry practice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-volatile_random-access_memory
However, the operation of the printer needs some kind of clock for maintenance cycles. What is not known is whether or not in the absence of a interval information whether or not the firmware will boot in "limp" mode. It all depends of how much "what if" routines are included. So for example if on a PRO-1 by pure speculation, the battery is down and the printer does not know the interval since the last operation, it may go into a "startup from a long interval since last use routine and purge like there is no tomorrow. The result of this could be excessive use of ink and filled waste ink pads in no time.
Printers and their detailed operating parameters are hardly documented in detail even in their technical service manual and those provide far more information than even their tech support can provide.
It is doubtful that engineers will lock out in the event of battery failure. If it happens, it is possibly an oversight. Batteries do fail prematurely, Perhaps the updated firmware you received on the serviced Pro-1 fixes the the oversight of a failed battery. We simply do not know.
 
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The Hat

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In today's world it is highly unlikely that the computer firmware would be stored in memory that needed battery power to retain the operating instructions or firmware. However, the operation of the printer needs some kind of clock for maintenanperation of the printer needs some kind of clock for maintenance cycles. It all depends of how much "what if" routines are included. So for example if on a PRO-1 by pure speculation, the battery is down and the printer does not know the interval since the last operation, it may go into a "startup from a long interval since last use routine and purge like there is no tomorrow.. It is doubtful that engineers will lock out in the event of battery failure. If it happens, it is possibly an oversight. Batteries do fail prematurely, Perhaps the updated firmware you received on the serviced Pro-1 fixes the the oversight of a failed battery. We simply do not know. O' yes we do
As I have already explained all information for the day to day running and operating of these printers is stored in the memory chip (As always) and this is unaffected by the presence of a battery, the battery is just to maintain the new AI memory.

Battery life is set longer than the life of the printer or to its first service, and there is also an early warning displayed if the battery power becomes low, the AI memory uses mains power 99.5 % 0f the time, and only requires battery power when the printer is not powered by mains. (ten years)

When a Canon printer is unplugged from the wall sock for a set period of time, (Usually Minutes) it will run an extended cleaning cycle, this is the case with all Canon printers, but a little longer for pigment ink, again I repeat the battery has no bearing on the day to day operation of the printer.

These printers do need a battery to function, so if one is not detached the printer refuses to operate till the 6700 error is rectified, the AI memory has the first and last say, but it’s got nothing to do with any lengthy purge cycles or head cleans..
(Despite pure speculation)

Since my Pro 1 service, it had (Two week delay) for the new firmware that was installed back then, it has now become the standard for all Pro printers, check the bottom of the nozzle printout, if the firmware Version is present, that indicates the firmware is locked..
 

palombian

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I don't know anything about the PRO-1, but based on the many requests for help on this forum (or should I say @The Hat who is very dedicated to answers all these questions) it is a complicated design.

For some reason Canon returned to the basics with the PRO-10 (and PRO-100) afterwards. Until now a number of assumptions (as locked firmware) have been proven false. Even the more recent Maxify can be accessed with the appropriate service tool.

Maybe we should not be too suspicious. The problem for Canon are not the few people refilling their own printer, but the industry of compatibles and refurbished OEM carts.
Ink tank printers are the solution. Most probably the net gain on a bottle of ink is higher than on cartridges with sophisticated chips and other anti-refill measures. On top of the much higher printer sale price.

It seems to me nearly all users of Pro photo printers as the PRO-1000 buy OEM ink. This ink is so complicated that for 4 of the 12 colors no valid 3th party replacement can be made. So why should Canon build in overly complicated measures ?
 

stratman

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The reasons I asked my initial question was curiosity and to be better able to help others on the forum.

I don't know why you have been evasive in answering my initial question: Which Canon printers have this "AI" function? It has curiously been pulling teeth with you since. Is this info Top Secret?

First you say "both" and that you were referring to the title of this thread. Then you say maybe the Pro-1000. Then it's some in the Pro series but not naming them. After I quote you about your Pro-1 mishap then you state the Pro-1 has this function as well. Any other printers you want to let us know about?

I did not recall you posting about Tech Support telling you the 200/300 have this "AI". I only recalled you saying it was a possibility or saying we will see. So I asked you where you got this new to me info. It was a genuine question, not harassment, though it seems you thought the latter. You say you have covered it previously. Where? Maybe I missed it. Maybe I forgot. Maybe I misread it. Sometimes your posts require deciphering and could be misunderstood.

These printers do need a battery to function, so if one is not detached the printer refuses to operate till the 6700 error is rectified
You need a battery but if not detached then... Confusing wording, like a double negative. Do you mean the battery is present but dead? I had to reread and then think on it. Not what I want to do first thing in the morning. I need an updated The Hat Decoder Ring.

If you had answered my question fully to the best of your knowledge in the beginning then we wouldn't be in this feckin mess.
 

Artur5

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......

When a Canon printer is unplugged from the wall sock for a set period of time, (Usually Minutes) it will run an extended cleaning cycle, this is the case with all Canon printers, but a little longer for pigment ink, again I repeat the battery has no bearing on the day to day operation of the printer.
...
Just for the record:
When not in use, I keep my Pro-10s powered off but with the cable plugged to the AC socket. Instead, my Maxify MB5150 sits on a shelf totally disconnected from the mains, until I want to use it.
In my estimation, there’re no extra cleaning cycles when I connect the Maxify, In fact, it runs less maintenance routines than the Pro-10s. Most times, it starts printing right away after I click ‘print’, while the Pro-10s, before going for business, performs usually a lot of antics.. led blinking, assorted rumbling noises and, sure enough, a cleaning cycle if it has been unused for three days or more.
 
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palombian

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Just for the record:
When not in use, I keep my Pro-10s powered off but with the cable plugged to the AC socket. Instead, my Maxify MB5150 sits on a shelf totally disconnected from the mains, until I want to use it.
In my estimation, there’re no extra cleaning cycles when I connect the Maxify, In fact, it runs less maintenance routines than the Pro-10s. Most times, it starts printing right away after I click ‘print’, while the Pro-10s, before going for business, performs usually a lot of antics.. led blinking, assorted rumbling noises and, sure enough, a cleaning cycle if it has been unused for three days or more.
You know the best the Maxify has a protection against ink depletion.
I suppose for an office printer it would not be appreciated when it takes too long before the first page.
 

mikling

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Just for the record:
When not in use, I keep my Pro-10s powered off but with the cable plugged to the AC socket. Instead, my Maxify MB5150 sits on a shelf totally disconnected from the mains, until I want to use it.
In my estimation, there’re no extra cleaning cycles when I connect the Maxify, In fact, it runs less maintenance routines than the Pro-10s. Most times, it starts printing right away after I click ‘print’, while the Pro-10s, before going for business, performs usually a lot of antics.. led blinking, assorted rumbling noises and, sure enough, a cleaning cycle if it has been unused for three days or more.
If it is AI, it would not be intelligent or smart to put the "learned" data into a volatile memory space. That would mean that the " learned" characteristics/patterns of the user over several years would be lost.
Many people use AI too loosely. True AI is a wonderfully and powerful thing at its core, is the data that is collected over time and this data is fundamental to its benefits. Consumers have yet to grasp real AI and its implications, well we see its implications in social media and it is not looking good for humankind. At the machine level and especiallu when networked, it is phenomenal. Do I think there is AI in Canon printers? NO. Do I think the engineers have refined some routines that are needed for the benefit of the user and Canon. Yes...but that aspect can be mistaken for AI.

Here is something 4 years old and its implications are extremely interesting. Just jump to 1:148:30 and watch.
Note NO CODE needs to be written! and a virtual machine is simulated, paralleled and then networked!
 
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