My new Epson R2000

costadinos said:

In any case, red and orange are the colors that get used the least with the R2000, so you could as well buy a smaller quantity of these...

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So again: the same thing goes for the Canon Pro 9000 and the Pro 9500 with their red (orange) inks. Hardly used at all. Why not drop the red ink and use orange only and use vivid magenta instead of normal magenta in this printer and have it substituted by grey ink or use grey and white ink instead of the red and orange ? So you can print neutral black and white prints and give deeper depth to prints in dark shadows without over saturating the paper and white ink making it possible to print on darker paper surfaces to enhance white contrast ? The Epson R1900/2000 does proof there is optically NO need of light magenta/cyan/grey inks: it produces small droplets up to 1.5 pl.

I did made some test prints and profiles and it really prints fantastically nice with great details and without any graininess in light area's. Indistinguishable to the prints on my Epson Pro 3800 with significantly less gloss differential and less bronzing(due to the gloss optimizer).

pharmacist said:

So again: the same thing goes for the Canon Pro 9000 and the Pro 9500 with their red (orange) inks. Hardly used at all. Why not drop the red ink and use orange only and use vivid magenta instead of normal magenta in this printer and have it substituted by grey ink or use grey and white ink instead of the red and orange ? So you can print neutral black and white prints and give deeper depth to prints in dark shadows without over saturating the paper and white ink making it possible to print on darker paper surfaces to enhance white contrast ? The Epson R1900/2000 does proof there is optically NO need of light magenta/cyan/grey inks: it produces small droplets up to 1.5 pl.

I did made some test prints and profiles and it really prints fantastically nice with great details and without any graininess in light area's. Indistinguishable to the prints on my Epson Pro 3800 with significantly less gloss differential and less bronzing(due to the gloss optimizer).

Click to expand...

Epson already make 2 printers using the cLcmLmYkLkLLk inks (R2880/R3000), and while those two were intended for the fine art / black and white segment, I'm guessing they meant for the R2000 to excel in more consumer-oriented jobs (high saturation, glossy papers, especially photos including skin tones where the orange/red will help).

As for the reason why there are 2 shades of Magenta and Cyan, I am not yet convinced those are solely because the printer can't produce small enough droplets. There is a possibility the Light Magenta is not just a "diluted" version of the Magenta, but a different hue altogether, like the R2000 cyan is different from the K3 regular cyan. I can't tell for sure, but looking at two bottles of Light and regular Magenta in front of a flashlight they do look a bit different.

You may think that the difference is not significant, but there is something to be gained from the extra two colors, just like there is something to be gained from the two extra colors in the HDR printers (orange and green). I can't find the profiles I'd been using with my R2000 right now, but they did look similar to those below, which are for the same inkset in a 7900 and a 9890 (8 inks are the same, the 7900 has extra green and orange). The difference in gamut is quite large, around the oranges and greens. Very similar with the R2000 but around the reds and oranges.

Let's assume the R1900/2000 is a normal strength magenta and the Epson K3 Vivid uses a vivid magenta, for which a more vivid blue and purples can be reproduced, why not replacing the combination normal magenta/red/orange with vivid magenta/orange/gray ink ? I think this way you can still produce dazzling reds and skin tones and having introduced a gray ink as well in the ink combination. I am still convinced the gray ink will be a plus, not only for neutral black and white prints, but also for shadow details in prints and deeper depth in colors as well.

For example the Epson HDR ink has orange only as a gamut extender (combined with vivid magenta), so does the Canon Pro-1 with red (which is actually orange) in its ink set. Canon has removed the green ink in the 9500 and had it replaced with a gloss optimizer in the Pro-10 printer. So somehow the orange is the more critical color for a better gamut. So I think replacing the red ink in favor of gray ink would be better.

No arguments there, I too would love to see a printer with that combination of inks.
But the guys at Epson obviously didn't want to go down that route.
As much as I hate to admit it though, the special inkset of the R2000 was in fact able to produce the strongest reds I've ever seen from any printer. I've got some sample prints I made with OEM (and 3rd party in that matter) inks with the R2000 and the R3000, and the pure reds in the R2000 prints are visibly superior to those from the R3000. Although of little importance to the professional users (how many times have you had to print pure reds?), this could be a "wow" factor for the average consumer looking to buy a new printer...

As a side note, more shades of black don't necessarily mean more neutral black and white prints, a good profile is far more important than that. More shades of any colour help produce smoother tonal gradations and better contrast in saturated areas (shadows in the case of B&W).
The extra orange in the 7900 does not just increase the gamut (which is already good enough for most applications), it also produces better transitions wherever skin tones are present.
Although very subtle, there is visible difference in portrait prints with my 9890 and 7900 when used with fine art papers. With closeups in particular, where fine skin textures are present.

And one more thing: the OEM R2000 cyan ink is not the same as the K3 regular cyan, this is yet another formulation unfortunately. The same is true for the black...
That said, I managed to create a perfectly acceptable inkset for the R2000 by using Yellow, Vivid Magenta, Cyan and Photo Black from the Inktec Powerchrome inkset, Orange from the HDR inkset made by Champion and complete it with red from either IS or OCP.

Hi Costadinos,

thanks for the feedback. So the orange does a great job in skin tones. I too have experienced the very good B&W prints with the R2000 provided you make a good profile. I don't see any differences with a print made with the ABW-mode.

There is a guy who was able to enable both blacks in his R2400 and a gloss optimizer and omitting the LB and LLB inks. Now my wish is to replace the red with gray ink.....RIP, RIP, RIP .

Could check the hue/tone of the following mix of yellow and vivid magenta to reproduce orange and red with the ones of the Orange Champion and IS/OCP red ink:

orange: 3 drops of yellow + 1 drop of vivid magenta (for example in a small plastic container)
red: 1 drop of yellow + 4 drops of vivid magenta

and swap it out on a piece of photo paper with cotton stick and do the same with the Champion orange and IS/OCP red ink ?

This is a very easy test to do and I tried to make orange and red. As I don't have native orange and red ink, maybe you could upload a scan of the swaps using the above inks, so I can see if my mix is the right one ?

Sure, I'll try it tomorrow and upload a scan.
I'd guess that as long as you use quality cyan/magenta/yellow/black inks, the orange and red wouldn't matter much even if not exactly matched to the originals. A good profile should take care of the rest.

I searched everywhere for a RIP for the R2000 in the past, when one of the channels of my printer died, and was hoping to manage to get around it by "remapping" the remaining functional channels (and even the matte black that I didn't use). No success I'm afraid.

http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/is-there-a-rip-software-that-fully-supports-the-r2000.8003/

I am thinking to use the R2000 for glossy prints and my Epson Pro 3880 for larger prints. Gloss on both machines are very similar (using Inktec Powerchrome K3 in my Pro 3880), but the gloss differential and bronzing is far less and almost absent on the Epson R2000. Looks like a print made on a dye ink printer: I am impressed by it .

Anyhow: the gloss of the Inktec Powerchrome K3 is also very impressive compared to the Ultrachrome Hi-Gloss 2 ink with gloss optimizer. The only thing is the gloss differential with the area's not printed with inks and on semigloss/satin papers there is a strange bronzing effect in the grays when looked at it from a sharp angle. I don't think most will notice it all when looking at it straight away.

Yes, but if you are going to use Inktec in the R2000 the results are not going to be that different.
It would all depend on the gloss optimizer used. I've tried the IS and the OCP and the OCP was better, but still, you'll have to test it before reaching to a conclusion.

You should also give a try to the Champion CSS Mydochrome inks if you can get your hands on some. Price per liter is the same as Inktec and glossiness is the same or better. Gloss differential is not completely gone, but minor, even less than Inktec, and most importantly, there is no sign of that annoying bronzing that Inktec inks exhibit on some papers. And, although probably of not much importance to you, I found those to clog less than even the OEM with my 7900/9890 printers (!).

I can't buy it unfortunately: or I should buy some for you for testing. I am certainly interested. I can't buy liters of it, as I don't need so much ink now. Yes I have the OCP gloss optimizer, which seems to be the beste aftermarket gloss optimizer. I am certainly interested when my ink runs out and buy some stock from you.

I thought orange could only be mixed with rhyming colors!