The rocket science needed to clean sponge of refillable CLI-220

[Geklingel]

Awhile back I purchased a set of "Refillable" cartridges for my IP4700. Lately the PGBK cartridge will print until the ink tank is almost empty and then it runs out of ink. When refilling, little if any ink is absorbed by the sponge. I assume the sponge needs to be purged so that it will absorb ink again. I have previously tried, on OEM cartridges that wouldn't accept ink the method I found on this forum that made a contraption that had one end attached to a faucet and the other end attached to the outlet port of the cartridge the idea being to flush the sponge through the refill hole in the tank. Well the hose doesnt fit tightly over the outlet port and when the water pressure builds up the hose comes off and the ink goes everywhere! The only thing I managed to do was create a cartridge that the printer couldnt recognize! I have also tried the drip the water in methoddidnt work. I have tried closing the air hole and forcing water through the fill hole and out the outlet port using a syringe. Then closed the output port and forced waster out the air hole --- didnt work
I can get clean water to go through the cartridge so I guess most of the ink residue has come out but the sponges still wont absorb the ink. I have never been successful at reconditioning an OEM cartridge. Back to my refillable cartridge..
Before I screw this cartridge up I was wondering if anyone has any ideas about what I did wrong in the past. Im pretty confident that I dried the sponges sufficiently. Is there something besides water that can be used to dissolve any residue? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Maybe I should see if I can find some reconditioned cartridges and just throw them away when they wont accept the ink anymore.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[stratman]

Nifty-Stuff.com Pharmacist's cartridge flush/conditioning solution recipe again:

-3 % propylene glycol (or 2 % glycerin)
-20 % isopropyl alcohol
-distilled water up to 100 %

To make this conditioning solution a cleaning solution to dissolve stubborn stains: add 5 drops of concentrated ammonia per 100 ml of this solution. This solution has been tested by several forum members already and they are very happy with it. It also enhances the absorption degree of ink into the sponge after flushing, especially with the difficult pigment based BCI-3eBK/PGI-5Bk cartridge.



Conditioning: after flushing the sponge has difficulty to absorb the ink well and tends to be become a bit hydrophobic (water repellent). By completely immerge and drenching the sponge material with this solution and then blowing as much solution as possible the sponge is revived again. The pigment BCI-3eBK/PGI-5Bk is the most difficult one and using this conditioning solution improves the absorption degree of your favorite refill pigment ink.

Cleaning: fill a cartridge with this solution (with ammonia) and execute a deep cleaning cycle to remove stubborn and tenacious clogging.



20 ml isopropanol (isopropyl alcohol)
80 ml distilled water
10 drops of propylene glycol
(optional: 5 drops of concentrated ammonia)


Ammonia Concentration: if used in cleaning cycle stick with 5 drops per 100 ml and when used to soak print heads externally increase it to 20-25 drops.

Fold a paper towel into a nice thick and even strip and drench it with the cleaning solution and put it under the print head and let it soak for about 1 hour. After that, execute one cleaning cycle.


25-30 % ammonia: this is concentrated ammonia. If you use household concentration, increase accordingly.

Standard household ammonia in the UK is 9% w/w (weight for weight)

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

I used an InkTec cradle for HP564 (which injects fluid into the outlet). I plugged the vent as best I could, drew back on the syringe plunger to get a partial vacuum, then filled with purging solution. I alternated between sucking air out with the plunger and pushing purge solution back in. You can saturate the sponge quite well that way. I then washed the area around the vent, and drew in a little distilled water to clean the vent.

There are other ways of injecting ink, etc. into the outlet besides the InkTec device. I have seen home-made devices and devices sold with other types of ink. This equipment is not vacuum-tight at all, but it does allow a partial vacuum.

 

[ghwellsjr]

Awhile back I purchased a set of "Refillable" cartridges for my IP4700. Lately the PGBK cartridge will print until the ink tank is almost empty and then it runs out of ink. When refilling, little if any ink is absorbed by the sponge. I assume the sponge needs to be purged so that it will absorb ink again. I have previously tried, on OEM cartridges that wouldn't accept ink the method I found on this forum that made a contraption that had one end attached to a faucet and the other end attached to the outlet port of the cartridge the idea being to flush the sponge through the refill hole in the tank. Well the hose doesnt fit tightly over the outlet port and when the water pressure builds up the hose comes off and the ink goes everywhere! The only thing I managed to do was create a cartridge that the printer couldnt recognize! I have also tried the drip the water in methoddidnt work. I have tried closing the air hole and forcing water through the fill hole and out the outlet port using a syringe. Then closed the output port and forced waster out the air hole --- didnt work
I can get clean water to go through the cartridge so I guess most of the ink residue has come out but the sponges still wont absorb the ink. I have never been successful at reconditioning an OEM cartridge. Back to my refillable cartridge..
Before I screw this cartridge up I was wondering if anyone has any ideas about what I did wrong in the past. Im pretty confident that I dried the sponges sufficiently. Is there something besides water that can be used to dissolve any residue? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Maybe I should see if I can find some reconditioned cartridges and just throw them away when they wont accept the ink anymore.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

What ink have you been refilling with?

 

[l_d_allan]

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

My 2, since you asked.

This alternative cart purge/flush technique seems to work for me.

With the #1813 plug on the needle, it seals the cart well enough to push and pull through the outlet port and also the upper vent hole with the outlet port closed off. I felt I was getting all of the foam/sponge pristine. [Edit ... for dye 221 carts ... not pigment 220 carts]

Then use ghwellsjr wicking method to get the foam to a nice barely damp state. This seems to allow wicking/migration of the ink from the reservoir side to the foam very readily. You can almost hear "the giant sucking sound" of the ink migrating

My impression has been if the foam is more than just damp, the ink won't wick all that well ... which makes sense. Also, if it is too dry, it also may not wick well (which seems counter-intuitive). Then pharmacist's concoction may be of benefit.

But we really don't know how effective any of these flush methods are until a cart has been flushed multiple times. The variables are "unknown unknowns" and difficult to characterize. We end up with anecdotes rather than data.

Overall, my impression is that the value of doing flush/purge of carts may be over-rated. From posts I've read, in years past it was assumed to be necessary and beneficial. Now, opinions vary.

Also, my admittedly uninformed understanding is that using the German refilling method and cart flushing don't really work well together. With German refilling, you want to leave the area above the reservoir alone, especially the inlet port.

And furthermore ... you probably mean PGI-220-Bk, which is black pigment ink ... nasty stuff and a whole "different kettle of fish" than CLI-221 carts.

 

[l_d_allan]

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Well, I used to be a rocket scientist ... sort of ... well, not really.

Anyway.

FNO? (for nerds only)

I came across this annimated thread from several years back describing Canon's edgeshooter nozzles vs other vendors' roofshooter nozzles . I don't comprehend all of it, but it clarified some concepts wrt to nozzle clogging and variants of "ink flow problems" like ink starvation and non-primed nozzles.

I think the thread is relevant to clogs and cart flushing/purging, but YMMV. I'd also appreciate corrections from more knowledgeable forum members than myself if I'm providing erroneous info.

My impression is that ink flow is like a water pump going down into the ground. There needs to be "water to prime the pump". The ink at the very end of the nozzle is basically boiled by the nozzle heater circuitry to semi-explode out of the nozzle and "fly" to the paper

When the smaller-than-tiny ink drop does that, it creates a very slight partial vacuum that draws more ink to replace what just flew out of the nozzle. This is ink flow and has to be very finely calibrated for dynamic equilibrium. This slight suction has to be just enough to pull ink from the reservoir through the foam/sponge/filter, through the inlet port mesh of the print-head, and through the channel between the print-head inlet and the nozzle itself. Whew.

(My impression is that the people who engineered all this were paying close attention during fluid dynamics 590).

Otherwise, there won't be a replacement ink drop above the edgeshooter heater, and it all grinds to a halt for that nozzle. Now the nozzle heater circuitry is "dry" and isn't cooled by the ink absorbing the heat when it semi-exploded. If this continues, the nozzle circuit can be harmed.

So, if the cart isn't "breathing well" for any number of reasons, you can get a form of ink starvation at one or many of the nozzles for that color. I believe cart purging/flushing is intended to address this. The objective is to return the cart close to original specs so the just boiled ink drop can "draw" more ink to replace it. This happens hundreds, if not thousands, if not millions of times per second. To me, amazing that it works at all.

Some other implications:
* air leaks in the cart ... ink can leak out of the nozzle into the printer ... bad. I think there needs to be just enough surface tension for the ink "column" to not just drip out of the nozzle (like a spider walking on water?)

* top vent hole above the sponge clogged ... cart can't breathe well enough to have optimal ink flow

* lousy, cheap ink ... if too thin, messes up the whole works ... if too viscous ... easily clogged

And speaking of clogs .... which I believe are intimately elated to this ... but can wait for another time. Also, some or much or all of the above may reflect flawed understandings by me of what is going on.

Feedback appreciated. Much of the above is uninformed speculation. Also, it may be "PGO" ... profound grasp of the obvious

 

[ghwellsjr]

Mostly correct.

I would just make it clear that your point on "air leaks in the cart" is concerned only with an air leak in the reservoir side, since we obviously need an air path above the sponge unit to replace ink that flows out of the reservoir.

Also, about this comment:

"When the smaller-than-tiny ink drop does that, it creates a very slight partial vacuum that draws more ink to replace what just flew out of the nozzle. This is ink flow and has to be very finely calibrated for dynamic equilibrium. This slight suction has to be just enough to pull ink from the reservoir through the foam/sponge/filter, through the inlet port mesh of the print-head, and through the channel between the print-head inlet and the nozzle itself."

This isn't quite right because there is a disconnect between the sponge and the reservoir and it really isn't a vacuum created by the ejected ink droplet that propagates all the way back up to the sponge. There are chambers in the print head that buffer the flow. Capillary action is also involved in the flow between between the internals of the print head and the sponge unit. And then a separate process allows replenishment of the ink in the sponge from the ink in the reservoir.

But you are correct, it is a very impressive engineering feat that allows it to all happen. It almost makes me feel guilty that we aren't rewarding those engineers by buying their expensive cartridges.

 

[l_d_allan]

Mostly correct.

I would just make it clear that your point on "air leaks in the cart" is concerned only with an air leak in the reservoir side, since we obviously need an air path above the sponge unit to replace ink that flows out of the reservoir.

Agree ... should have mentioned that. I suppose a poor seal from the cart outlet port to the print-head inlet port is similarily "a very bad thing".

Also, I think abuse of the cart can harm the possibly delicate "air maze serpentine labyrinth" with pressure equilibrium chambers. I suspect this serpentine is even more elaborate than we think and not just above the sponge/foam side.

I cringe when I read about people blowing 120 psi through their systems. POP goes the printer? Or using shop vacuums for flushing?

I've wondered if the pressure from the 60ml syringe + needle + #1916 plug might be excessive for the "vent hole complex" when I've put my finger over the outlet port during cart flushing. I may have ruined some early carts in newbie ignorance.

Also, about this comment:

Grasshopper: "When the smaller-than-tiny ink drop does that, it creates a very slight partial vacuum that draws more ink to replace what just flew out of the nozzle. This is ink flow and has to be very finely calibrated for dynamic equilibrium. This slight suction has to be just enough to pull ink from the reservoir through the foam/sponge/filter, through the inlet port mesh of the print-head, and through the channel between the print-head inlet and the nozzle itself."

Saint George the Clog-slayer: This isn't quite right because there is a disconnect between the sponge and the reservoir and it really isn't a vacuum created by the ejected ink droplet that propagates all the way back up to the sponge. There are chambers in the print head that buffer the flow. Capillary action is also involved in the flow between between the internals of the print head and the sponge unit. And then a separate process allows replenishment of the ink in the sponge from the ink in the reservoir.

I also wondered about that, and had read about these "buffers". Up until a day or so ago, I had the impression there were tiny, tiny, tiny individual tubes connecting the print-head inlet port to the individual nozzles. Nope ... a related illustration of a cut-up print-head showing the chamber was very informative.

I had my doubts the slight vacuum could propagate all the way back to the cart innards. At least not 1000's of times per second with exquisite control. That would be like sucking on a 10 mile garden hose that originated in Lake Superior. Ain't gonna happen.

But you are correct, it is a very impressive engineering feat that allows it to all happen. It almost makes me feel guilty that we aren't rewarding those engineers by buying their expensive cartridges.

Almost? ... rotfl

An anti-rant? I suspect Canon nets out way ahead from refillers. I get the feeling that most refiller newbies give up in disgust after spending quite a bit more than they otherwise would have. The few of you other forum members who manage to figure it out don't come close to balancing out those who shell out upfront $$$ and then don't have much to show for it except stained hands and depleted savings and strained marriages.

I suspect further that if I really cost-accounted for all the up-front outlays, I'm still behind from what I'd have spent if I just had prints made at Sams or Costco. Those oem carts with oem ink to naively build up my cart inventory weren't free. So how dumb am I? How much am I really "puttin' it to da' man"?

So have a clear conscience!

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Also, I think abuse of the cart can harm the possibly delicate "air maze serpentine labyrinth" with pressure equilibrium chambers. I suspect this serpentine is even more elaborate than we think and not just above the sponge/foam side.

No, it's just a vent. It's long and thin ("serpentine" in HP cartridges) to retard evaporation, but it's still just a hole that's open to the atmosphere. There are pictures of them around. Just make sure the vent's not clogged, and it will be fine. When I had ink come out the vent during refilling, I just sucked a drop of distilled water back through it to clean it. Should be all right, I reckon (although I haven't tried it yet). Canon's vent design is a little more complicated, and downright wacky, in my opinion. Too big, maybe hard to clean, but also harder to clog.

 

[l_d_allan]

ThrillaMozilla,

I believe that the HP vent is irrelevant to this discussion. The "vent hole complex" above the foam/sponge of the Canon cart ain't just to retard evaporation. Ain't ... ain't ... ain't ...

Are you referring to the hole for the German refilling?

My emerging realization is that part of the "vent hole complex"s function is for the cart to breath as ink that was boiled out the nozzles is replaced. I believe the "vent hole complex" also is important during traditional top refilling for wicking/migration of the ink from the reservoir to the foam/sponge side.

But I acknowledge that I could be "unclear on the concept" with a deeply flawed understanding of what is and isn't going on.