Prograf with Red River Paper Polar Gloss Metallic

[Sotalo]

Hello! I'm wondering if anyone tried a pigment printer with Polar Gloss Metallic paper. The printer's still being shipped, but if it can't perform with metallic paper prints properly I'll need another good large format (17" if possible) dye printer. UGH... finding a good one will be a pain. Designjet was underwhelming, but it could just be the lousy paper I was forced to use with it.

 

[The Hat]

I'm wondering if anyone tried a pigment printer with Polar Gloss Metallic paper

Don’t jump to any conclusions before you’ve had a chance to try out the new printer, it has as good a chance of working with Polar Gloss Metallic paper than any other printer, it will all depend on the proper Media setting you choose.

If the pigment inks doesn’t work on that paper surface then dye ink wont either and you’ll need to choose another similar type paper, the Pro 1000 is at the very top of the class for inkjet printers..

 

[Sotalo]

I'll definitely print a test page, but from what I understand pigment inks sit on top of the paper and do not interact with coatings. Polar Gloss Metallic has a special metallic coating that requires dye infusion, but with that infusion the whole print, colors, etc. take on a beautiful, bold appearance. The whole purpose of the "color optimizer" on pigment printers is to apply a gloss coat to make the, usually matte pigment, more even in sheen across the surface. But the paper will be metallic, the ink will be matte, the sheen will be straight gloss, not metallic, and all that completely defeats the purpose of one of the most beautiful and expensive papers out there.

Looking around, most large format printers are either plotters like the DesignJet, very poor quality and iffy colors, or pigment, great on matte papers with gloss options for photos, but doesn't actually infuse with coatings. Dye photo printers seem to stop at 13" width, so, it seems photo dye printers capable of printing anything larger than 13x19 are basically nonexistent. This is my question... when you order a 16x20 print from a professional shop, what printer are they actually using?

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I'm not clear why you ordered this Pro-1000 pigment ink printer in the first place when you expect a poor print quality anyway. What are your requirements - printing on this polar gloss metallic paper ?
What format are you looking for ? HP has a series of printers which run with dye inks but apparently not to your expectations - the HP T230 is the smallest model in this range - did you test this polar gloss metallic paper on such a HP printer already ?

Pigment inks are not matte - they are glossy , and there is a separate matte black ink on photo printers for specific use on matte papers. And the interaction between the surface coating and inks are more complex than you describe which actually cause different looks depending on the combination of inks and papers used.

 

[maximilian59]

The whole purpose of the "color optimizer" on pigment printers is to apply a gloss coat

No.
My Pro-1000 doesn’t make an additional print run on the paper. The gloss optimizer is applied at same time as the other colors. It is wet in wet. It optimizes more or less, depending on your print and the paper, the differences between areas with high ink lay down to those with less or no inks. It is no magic oil and has also its limitations.
On microporous RC papers the pigmented inks from photo printers are not laying on the surface. These are very fine pigments compared to the ones used in office printers. On matte papers pigmented inks are more or less on the surface and dye inks diffuse into the ink accepting layer.
I have no problems printing on Moab Slickrock Metallic Silver 300, but prefer printing with dye inks on it. That’s a personal thing in my eyes.
The professional shops I know and have prints from here in Germany use printers with pigmented inks.
Cheers,
Maximilian

 

[Sotalo]

I'm not clear why you ordered this Pro-1000 pigment ink printer in the first place when you expect a poor print quality anyway.

Oh, no, I expected a very good quality printer. But after I ordered it I found out pigment sits on top of the paper, and someone else said the color optimizer adds a gloss sheen, which made me think it won't really work with special paper coatings. Also, the pro printer at my college a while back was shocked by the print quality I got on metal papers using an Epson Artisan at home. She didn't realize the paper could do that, and she was using expensive printers and worked with the paper all the time. Put two and two together... now I am freaking out, waiting for this printer to come that may not do the one thing I wanted it to do.

I'm setting up my shop to open with metal and matte options because I noticed none of the printers near me carried any metal papers, and personally, being with dyes my whole life, a lot of stuff just looks better on metal. I don't think I can test the printer and return it... it's a one and done deal.

And the interaction between the surface coating and inks are more complex than you describe which actually cause different looks depending on the combination of inks and papers used.

This makes me feel a little better...

On microporous RC papers the pigmented inks from photo printers are not laying on the surface. These are very fine pigments compared to the ones used in office printers. On matte papers pigmented inks are more or less on the surface and dye inks diffuse into the ink accepting layer.

Feel a little better hearing that...

I have no problems printing on Moab Slickrock Metallic Silver 300, but prefer printing with dye inks on it. That’s a personal thing in my eyes.

This is what I feared. The coatings might just work better with dyes. I can't even find a good quality 16x20 dye printer. HP's Designjet is common, yes, but it's a plotter, not a photo printer. From my experience, every print with it has been disappointing. Very sharp, clear resolution, no fringe effects, but just lousy colors all around. Too light overall, then very dark areas lose detail and bleed through. Could've been the paper... But if my theory is true, this is why metal prints aren't even an option in my local shops: metals don't look good with pigment, and there just aren't any good large-format dye photo printers. Pigment looks better for everything... except this.

Anyone else had better luck with Canon's proGraf on metal paper? Red River Polar Gloss Metallic? If not, what other printers should I be looking at?

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I have no problems printing on Moab Slickrock Metallic Silver 300

I only can confirm that metallic papers by different suppliers have quite a different look, one may look good, another one just unusable, I liked the look of a Sihl metallic paper but currently - Corona related - do barely any prints. It may be better for you to test different papers on a smaller - e.g. A4 format - printer with pigment inks to get a good impression of the look before you decide for a specific printer and paper.

Or you switch to dye inks altogether - you even may do refill with dye inks on a pigment ink printer - the Pro-1000 is not suited well for refill, but the predecessor of the Epson P900 - the P800 could run with dye inks. This would be a non-standard approach and would require you to get icc-color profiles for your ink/paper combinations, but it would run technically without problems.
And if you are interested to look for larger formats you may even use an Epson T3100x - 24" - with a tank system and already running with dye inks.

I don't know which papers you tested on an HP printer, if colors are off you most likely need a icc color profile to correct that, or it was an unsuitable paper you used, uncoated papers don't deliver much color saturation like simple copy paper. And it could be that driver settings did not match your photo quality requirements but were adjusted to deliver fast print output which is quite typical for copy/print shops so there are more variables in the game.

 

[The Hat]

Oh, no, I expected a very good quality printer. But after I ordered it I found out pigment sits on top of the paper

The simplest answer is to not accept delivery of the printer and send it back without opening it, then try some of the options that @Ink stained Fingers suggested..

 

[stratman]

Polar Gloss Metallic

Is this a Red River paper?

If so, then Red River states this paper is compatible with the Canon Pro 1000. Read all the tabs and the blue circle check marks on the link below.

https://www.redrivercatalog.com/browse/66lb-polar-pearl-metallic-inkjet-photo-paper.html

From the Compatibility tab in the link above:

Red River states multiple times that the paper is compatible with any inkjet printer, Pigment or Dye-based:

https://www.redrivercatalog.com/browse/metallic-paper.html


Red River has an ICC Printer Profile for that printer when using OEM Canon ink:

https://www.redrivercatalog.com/profiles/canon-pro-1000-icc-printer-color-profiles.html

Using aftermarket inks may give widely different results.


Whether you like the output on this paper is an altogether different issue than compatibility with your printer.

 

[stratman]

Side note: One external review of the paper linked on the Red River page states

"First, this isn’t Red River’s first attempt at an ink jet compatible metallic paper. It is, to my knowledge, the first commercially available paper for pigment-based printers from any company. (Pigment printers include our studio’s workhorse Canon iPF6100.)"

http://photoartsmonthly.com/blog/2010/07/27/the-arrival-of-ink-jet-metallic-paper/

Made to work with Pigment ink printers!

Note that the above review is for "Red River’s new Polar Pearl Metallic". That was the original name that subsequently was change to Polar Gloss Metallic.

https://www.redrivercatalog.com/browse/66lb-polar-pearl-metallic-inkjet-photo-paper.html