Printer confusion: Canon pixma 6700, 6600, 6000, 5200 etc

[NaoWiv]

I'm new so I apologise if I inadvertently do/say something wrong.
Until I started searching forums I was pretty positive I wanted a canon pixma iP6700D as its pretty much everything I'm looking for in a printer. Although the text output is a little worrying, I'll be using it for photos 95% of the time.
Having read a few other reviews and comments, I'm now swayed towards other canon printers, namely the 6600, 6000, 5200, 5800. Does anyone have experience of any or a combination of these who can help my decision?
I don't really understand what is meant by 'chipped' canons, but I think this is not something I'm too concerned with (unless I should be . . .?). I basically want great, clear photos of varying sizes for use in frames and albums.
Thanks for any help you can give

 

[chickens]

If I'm not mistaken, chipped canons actually meant on the cartridges. Back to older models pixma ip4000/5000 series, (or other models that I might not know of), their cartridges does not have a chip embedded on the cartridges. This means you could use any third party inks, compatible cartridges in another words. For the newer models recently, where the printer uses PGI-5BK/CLI-8 cartridges, they are embedded with chips. This would only limit you to use original canon cartridges. If you insist using compatible cartridges, the chances are you are forced to void the warranty canon provided or you may need to find other methods which isnt as convinient as the older models give. Well, if you are thinking of using third party inks all they way, maybe this would be your biggest concern for the moment as it deals with $.

 

[NaoWiv]

Hmm, not exactly ideal then. Thanks.
Does anyone know of a cheap site in Australia to bulk-buy the canon cartridges? As much as the cost bothers me, I think I'd like to wait a bit before I attempt to void my warranty!

 

[chickens]

Well, if you still can find ip4000/5000 around your area, then go for it, or any other model that dont use chipped canon cartridges

 

[ghwellsjr]

The 6000 series have six cartridges and are ideal for printing on photo paper. The 5000 (and below) have five cartridges and are ideal for printing on plain paper but they do fine on photo paper, too. The main difference is that the 5000 series includes a pigment black ink cartridge which will not smear on plain paper if it gets wet. Dye inks do not smear on photo paper. Both series include a dye black, and instead of a pigment black, the 6000 series has two lighter colored cartridges (magenta and cyan) to get better control of fine color gradations.

So your first decision is whether you want to have better black printing on plain paper or whether you want to print mainly on photo paper.

Your next decision is whether you want to buy cheaper third party cartridges or reink yourself, or stick with expensive Canon cartridges.

And finallly, if you do want to go one of the cheaper ink routes, are you willing to void your warranty and pay special attention to your ink levels by examining your cartridges to see if it's time to refill or replace?

If you want to buy Canon ink cartridges then get any of the current models (they all have chipped cartridges) and make your decision on whether you want more durable black printouts on plain paper.

If you to go the cheaper ink route and don't mind voiding the warranty and keeping close tabs on your ink levels, then you can also buy any of the current models.

However, if you, like me, don't like those choices, then you will have to find a used printer that does not use the chipped cartridges. There are a lot of good buys on eBay for the iP6000D but I don't know if they ship to Australia and I don't know about ink/cartridge availability.

In America, there are still some of the eight cartridge, wide format i9900 printers around in stores for $450, which use unchipped cartridges. In Australia, this model is known as the i9950.

 

[Trigger 37]

I hope my post on this subject will get more discussion going so we can finalize the issue of Canon's threat about their warranty of products. Now I'm sure that Canon has 100's of lawyers and they aren't that stupid. But looking at the totally despriate measures they have done to get customers to buy "Only Canon Ink", I guess I can believe anything about them.

A couple of days ago I was reading some information at an "INK" refill web site that refered to a U.S. Govt law that precludes Canon, or any other company, from requiring customers to purchase "Tie in Products" in order to validate a warranty. A Tie-in product would be "Only Canon Ink jet cartridges" can be used in this printer. Here is a copy of some of the paragraphs from the "Magnusson-Moss Act" of 1975.

"Tie-In Sales" Provisions
Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.

In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.--------------

That is an example of a tie in sales, and so is Canon, or any other company from requiring them. I'm not anywhere near a lawyer and I plan to do more investigation on this because I own 3 Canon printers, and two Canon Cameras. Again I hope this starts a lot of discussion. I have a brand new Canon i6600D, and I know about the CLI-8 carts and the chips they use. I also know how expensive the Canon ones are,.. and just about everyone that buys such a printer can not afford to pay that kind of $$$ just to print photographs. I have been refilling Canon Carts with vendor ink since 1996. On my i560, which I have had for 3 years, I have gone through more than 40 oz of ink in refilling,.. and same for my MP730,.. and before that it was a Canon Multipass 2500.

The point is "Refilling ink Carts" is a necessary evil and a part of printing that won't go away. This is especially true now that Canon has put chips on all the new printers that potentially force everyone to buy their Cartridges.

Getting back to the orginal point of this post,... NAO-Wiv was asking about good Canon printer and the ip6700D and the ip6600D. Like I said, I just purchased the iP6600 which I believe is just the same as the iP6700D and uses the same CLI-8 carts. A new one goes for $180 and the warranty is 1 year. I bought a reberbished iP6600D for $67 and a 3 month warranty. I expect to start refilliing the carts as soon as necessary. There are detailed procedures on many web sites and this forum on how to refill the CLI-8 carts and there are dozens of places to buy resonable ink. To compare these printers and the ip6000, one only has to look at the spec's at Canon's web site. Sure, the ip6000 uses the old "UnChipped BCI-6 ink carts, but these have been around for 4 or more years, and yes they are dirt cheap for non Canon parts,.. about $1.20 a cart. But look at the difference in resolution of the two printers. The ip6000 is 4800x1200 and very slow. The black is so slow my 3 year old i560 can run circles around it. It also has no better resolution than my i560. Yes it does have 6 colors, but that is about it.
Why do I know all of this,... because I did 3 months of research looking for the best photographic printer that I could afford.

The iP6600 is 9600x2400 dpi and with 3072 print nozzles, and has a respectable print speed in all colors. When I want to print large documents fast, I'll still use my MP730 which also does 22 ppm in black. If NAO-Wiv primary usage of a new printer is Photographs, and if she/he want the best quality, I would go for the ip6600. If she/he can afford the iP6700D then go for it. If you're going to have a new printer,... better learn how to refill now.

I would like to hear if anyone has every had their warranty rejected from Canon for using some other ink. I also recently saw a law suit judgement come down against Epson for their 'Chipped" carts. It seems that there chip tells the customer the cart is out of ink when it really isn't and stops the printing. A class action suit was filled against Epson and they lost. If any one has a receipt for an Epson Chipped cart for the last two years they are getting a rebate of cash.

One last point. I've had Canon printers since 1996, a MP2500, and i560 wlhich I have run the wheels off of and it still has not failed, MP730, Canon 8400F scanner, and these products are very reliable. I'm not worried about a Warranty. In that same period of time I've lost 3 lexmark printers (two died and one was just to slow). Sorry for being so long winded but I hope this help you NAO-Wiv.

 

[Trigger 37]

I just found the link to the Epson printer lawsuit so I will add it here. The court did not make a judgement on the suit as Epson agreed to settle the Class Action suit out of court. However, this is still pending an appeal by Epson. They are not happy about the final lawyer fees and the appeal holds up all payments. This is actually a rotten deal for the Epson customers as it does not stop them from doing what they were doing with their chipped carts. They will just pay out a few 1000 bucks and are right back in business. I have also asked the same law firm to investigate the possibility of a new class action suit against Canon. I would think there could be another Class Action suit against Epson, because the current one was for only past printers and not future ones.

ATTENTION MOST U.S. OWNERS OF EPSON INKJET PRINTERS:

CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT AGAINST EPSON MAY MEAN SOME MONEY RETURNED TO YOU

In case you are not aware of it, all Epson inkjet printers purchased or
otherwise acquired between April 8,1999 and May 8, 2006 in the US are
included in a class action lawsuit that, if you register, entitles you
(the owner) to either $45 in Epson e-store credit, OR $25 cash plus $20
e-store credit, OR 25% off purchases from the e-store up to $100
discount, all of this is per printer. If you need more information
about this see:

http://www.epsonsettlement.com/

Ijust hope someone has a class action suit going agains Canon for the nutty things they included in the print driver and the chipped carts that limit or stop functioning items in the printer once a non Canon ink Cart is installed.

 

[NaoWiv]

Thanks very much for all your help. I've decided to go with the 6700 as I will be printing loads of photos and not much text. Plus since you all have a few printers each and it seems to be the norm to get the best for what the use, I figure I can always get a good printer for text.
I'm still unsure which direction I'll take with regard to ink tanks/cartridges/carts, but I'll let you know how I get on and what I decide. If the printer is as good as ghwellsjr and Trigger 37 say, it might be worth voiding the warranty to not need a small mortgage to get new ink. And if it does stuff up, I'll try to get it fixed under warranty and let you know what Canon say.

 

[WhiteDog]

Trigger37 this matter of the Magnusson Act and warranties was written up on another thread in the month of January. I think we pretty well mashed it to bits, to the point that until a law firms wants to take the matter on spec, it's just going to lie there.

 

[Trigger 37]

Nao Wiv,

The iP6700D from Canon has a pretty large price tag. I think it was $199 US. In looking at the spec's on the iP6600D, I really don't seen anything new in the iP6700D that would change anything in color Photo printing. In the US, you can get a refurbished iP6600D in the box with new CLI-8 carts for about $65 plus shipping. To Australia. that might cost a lot more. Maybe you could check with Canon/Aus and see if they are selling the refurbished units. The advantage of getting one there is reduced shipping cost and you'll get all the CD/DVD printing support built into the unit. In the States we have to buy that stuff on Ebay. If you have made your mind up about the 6600/6700 I think you're going to have to consider refilling your own carts and buying bulk ink. There is all kinds of it on the internet. I get mine from atlanticinkjet.com There is just no way I could every afford to pay Canon $15.00 a cart, for 6 carts in the machine. That would be about $90 every 2-3 months. I have already made my decision to refill based on my past experience with refilling and printing excellent quality photos. I don't believe that Canon can make their threat about their warranty hold up. They will try but pretty soon enough people are going to get tired of the price for all the new carts, and this is going to affect their bottom line sales. It has already started to happen. You see on this web site people recommending to you to buy and "OLD" printer that doesn't have chipped carts. This isn't going to help Canon sell their new printers. I was amazed to see that a 3+ years old Canon i560 printer sold for over $100 on eBay. That is more than I paid for mine 3 years ago.

Here is some more news that I think I should share with this forum. I mentioned that I had ordered a new iP6600D. It was shipped and arrived in 4 days. I installed it, loaded the drivers, installed the ink carts, and ran the nozzle test pattern. Nothing printed at all. It was dead on arrival. It would go through all the motion, the ink would wet the printhead, but not a drop of ink from any color would come out on the paper. I call Canon Tech support, and we went through every test they could think of. Since I am so far from the nearest Canon repair rep, Canon is just going to drop ship me a new printer, and a new printhead. Of course once I find and fix the problem, everything else has to be shipped back, or they will charge me. I think that somewhere inside the printer, a cable came loose and that is why it won't print. The commands are not getting to the printhead. The printhead that came in the box was sealed new just as the new Carts.

One last point,... I know a lot of people are very dissapointed that these new printers don't have the fast text or black print speed. That made me quite upset myself as my old i560 will print fast black at 22 ppm, and that is moving. All the spec's on the iP6600D that are printed for the US market, won't even tell you what the speed is of the black text. I downloaded the UK, and the AUS Canon spec', which are the same, but their documents tell you a lot more. The black print speed for text in the iP6600 is 18ppm,.. not all that bad. I still think it should be as fast or faster than the i560 because the printhead has 512 nozzles comparied to the 256 in the i560. The horizontal pitch of the 6600 is 1/9600" and I can't believe they move the print head slower, back and forth. The vertical pitch is 1/2400" and that could be the problem. Once they set the driver to achieve that resolution, it must take more passes to print the black text lines. That would be the only way it could be slower. It all comes down to the print driver, and what they have enabled the printer to do. Each time you select a different quality setting, you are actually reducing the resolution, but because they are not using Pigmented black, they leave the text resolution higher so the "Dye" ink will look good. You would think that if it could go faster,they would do it. If anyone knows the anwer I would really like to hear it.