My MAXIFY 5350 is on refill ink

stratman

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you explained there what the advantage is of pigment on normal paper. Basically this part:
That does not speak about Plain Paper. ISF wrote about Matte and Glossy papers.

I think you are getting a bit stuck on plain paper and pigment inks. An image will generally be significantly better appearing on photo paper and not plain paper whether you use dye-based or pigment inks.. Do not expect high quality prints using plain paper and pigment ink unless printing text. There is no free lunch with plain paper and image quality.

Advantages of aftermarket pigment ink over dye-based ink is fade resistance and water resistance. Use of quality inks, papers, printers and appropriate printer profiles increase the opportunity to make good looking and fade resistant prints with Pigment ink. Again, no free lunch. Use quality printing products to maximize results.

However, like many things in life, it is YOUR perception that counts since it will be for YOUR entertainment. If you are satisfied with images printed on plain paper using pigment ink then OK. Your opinion is the one that matters for you.
 

palombian

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As expected, there is a line in the cyan now, nozzles are burned.
I have feed problems with cyan since long.
Maybe I did something wrong in the beginning. A new bottle of ink and flushing carts didn't help.

I removed the printhead out of curiosity (you can insert a syringe in the ink inlet tubes too rinse, it flows like a river out of the nozzles, definitely wide channels) but no avail.

Instead of a new printhead I bought a new MB5150, this model has a double side scanner too and I don't need the second cassette.
I ordered a fresh set of ARC's at Alibaba.
When the cyan issue reappears I'll refill with other ink.

I printed in almost 3 years 14901 pages + 6249 double side = 21150 sides, many colour graphs and photos.
Used about 1750 ml aftermarket ink (about € 250 incl refill tools), replacing at least 12 OEM ink sets (about € 1000).
Maybe the printhead would have lived longer with OEM, but I could afford the € 141.50 for a new printer.

No idea about the waste ink container, but @The Hat estimated the volume 1 liter, and since on average half of the ink is flushed away, it probably was over half full.

Anyway, the 5350 can still be used for plain black text and drafts.
 

Artur5

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Sorry to hear about that. Must be the first Maxify printhead failure that I've read about.
Is it complicated to remove the printhead ?

Welcome to the MB5150 club. :)
 

palombian

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Sorry to hear about that. Must be the first Maxify printhead failure that I've read about.
Is it complicated to remove the printhead ?

Welcome to the MB5150 club. :)
I admit I neglected it, but it is still operational, no B200 error.

The printhead is secured by a lever as usual plus 2 screws, afterwards business as usual.
You better remove the plastic that blocks the access to the carts, easier to change carts afterwards too.

PS: My 5150 has firmware Ver. 1.130, what is yours (for eventual refilling issues) ?
 
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Artur5

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Mine is 1.110
Page count is 5651-5700. At least 90% of those pages were black text in standard quality. Usually I print in booklet mode : two DIN A5 pages on each side of A4 paper.
Right now, the only color showing sometimes issues in nozzle checks is yellow. Mild banding or occasional magenta contamination after refilling one cartridge. Nothing serious for the time being, but I should print more in color. Underusing CMY inks might lead to serious clogging problems and maybe to burned nozzles, as with your cyan.
 

palombian

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Mine is 1.110
Page count is 5651-5700. At least 90% of those pages were black text in standard quality. Usually I print in booklet mode : two DIN A5 pages on each side of A4 paper.
Right now, the only color showing sometimes issues in nozzle checks is yellow. Mild banding or occasional magenta contamination after refilling one cartridge. Nothing serious for the time being, but I should print more in color. Underusing CMY inks might lead to serious clogging problems and maybe to burned nozzles, as with your cyan.
I printed a lot of colour (emptied over 1000 ml CMY).
Seldom had problems with magenta and cyan, and these nozzle checks are still fine.
There must have been a partial clog in the cyan, I had bad nozzle checks since long when starting the printer.
This is gone now, maybe I should have rinsed the printhead earlier, it is very easy.

No history of Maxify firmware, in the - unexpected - case Canon blocked ARC chips, I still have a new printhead.
 

ColourKid

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It has been a while, but since my last post I bought a MB5150. Great printer overall. Speedy, sharp text with pigment colours that I think will last forever, and the occasional photo (although it lacks the vibrancy of dye-based inks on glossy papers and it cannot do borderless photos, so I plan to get another printer for that, maybe something like the ET-7750, although it's super expensive).

Anyway, I didn't print that much yet so only now I am at 30% of the remaining ink on average. Naturally I'm looking into refilling. I have read the better part of this whole thread o_O, which has some great explanations and experimentation, although some things are not clear entirely.

Here I wrote some points, with some questions in them too. Maybe some of you experts can confirm these, or clarify or otherwise explain!
  1. I understand the best option is either to refill the OEM carts or the new version of the Chinese carts (with a plastic bag inside, like the OEM's).
  2. Refilling the OEMs works with the vacuum method, through the normal ink outlet port.
  3. The Chinese carts can be filled up with about twice the amount of ink apparently, compared to the OEMs. However, you have to refill before they are getting too empty otherwise contamination may occur. Refilling works differently from the OEMs. (You cannot use the vacuum refill method?? Why actually you cannot do that? For example while keeping the air inlet closed?).
  4. There two kinds of after-market chips: one-timer chips (a.k.a. permanent chips) and auto reset chips (ARCs). The ARCs is what you want for continuous ink level monitoring. They reset once you remove them but only when the printer gives a red cross / x, indicating empty. I am not clear on the use-case of the one-time chips though (but see point 7).
  5. Besides ink level counting based on the chip, the Maxify also has a hardware detection system for the ink flow, so that also can trigger a red cross if it reads a lack of ink flow. I guess if you want to still continue printing when that happens you should press (keep pressed) the red button so it disables all ink monitoring (not recommended I guess, and only necessary if you don't have ARCs)?
  6. In case of a chip-triggered red cross while there is actually enough ink left, you can still print, so in that case you don't have to refill yet. However, beware of contamination due to low ink levels (especially with Chinese/aftermarket carts??).
  7. Also a question mark (?) or an exclamation mark (!) can be shown, instead of a red cross (x). Not sure when this happens? Is that only with the one-time chips? Which then always show ! or ?, until hardware ink flow monitoring detects that a cart is empty at which point it will still show a red cross? In that case one-timers would not be so bad to use. The only thing is that you lose ink level monitoring of the cart's ink consumption. I guess the one-time chip just has some trick to confuse the printer (a question mark means it doesn't know the ink level but it still detects ink flow via flow detection). Or do I have this all wrong? Please explain!
  8. You can also choose to forgo using ARCs and ink level monitoring using the chips and just refill all carts every 2500 pages or so. In this case, if the hardware detection system reads empty for one of the colours does it still give a red cross when truly empty? Or only when you put in one-time chips? Because I guess with ARCs it may give off a chip-triggered red cross as well, so you don't know when it's truly empty and the cross is actually also a flow sensor triggered one? Especially if you use refillable Chinese carts, which have a larger capacity, the ARCs will signal a red cross sooner than the flow detection, since the ARCs simulate the lower capacity of an OEM cart.
  9. In the previous point, the use of one-time chips and just waiting until a red cross is probably inadvisable for Chinese carts, because they are not supposed to get too empty as they risk contaminating other carts (see point 3).
  10. If you forgo chip-induced ink level monitoring you have to replace the carts by using the "power plug trick". Otherwise the printer does not allow you to have "official" access to the carts. But then again, will it not show a red cross when the ink flow sensor detects a low ink level, after which it might allow replacing??? So the power plug trick is not necessary at all?
I numbered them for you to refer to. :)

I probably got a few points wrong, or some points might not be clear yet within our community and require further experimentation. Anyway, I look forward to your replies, so that I can make a plan and choose how I am going to refill my printer!
 
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palombian

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It has been a while, but since my last post I bought a MB5150. Great printer overall. Speedy, sharp text with pigment colours that I think will last forever, and the occasional photo (although it lacks the vibrancy of dye-based inks on glossy papers and it cannot do borderless photos, so I plan to get another printer for that, maybe something like the ET-7750, although it's super expensive).

Anyway, I didn't print that much yet so only now I am at 30% of the remaining ink on average. Naturally I'm looking into refilling. I have read the better part of this whole thread o_O, which has some great explanations and experimentation, although some things are not clear entirely.

Here I wrote some points, with some questions in them too. Maybe some of you experts can confirm these, or clarify or otherwise explain!
  1. I understand I can refill both the OEM carts as well as the new version of the Chinese carts (with a plastic bag inside, like the OEMs).
  2. Refilling the OEMs works with the vacuum method, through the normal ink outlet port.
  3. The Chinese carts can be filled up with about twice the amount of ink apparently, compared to the OEMs. However, you have to refill before they are getting too empty otherwise contamination may occur. Refilling works differently from the OEMs. (You cannot use the vacuum refill method?? Why actually you cannot do that? For example while keeping the air inlet closed?).
  4. There two kinds of after-market chips: one-timer chips (a.k.a. permanent chips) and auto reset chips (ARCs). The ARCs is what you want for continuous ink level monitoring. They reset once you remove them but only when the printer gives a red cross / x, indicating empty. I am not clear on the use-case of the one-time chips though (but see point 7).
  5. Besides ink level counting based on the chip, the Maxify also has a hardware detection system for the ink flow, so that also can trigger a red cross if it reads a lack of ink flow. I guess if you want to still continue printing when that happens you should press (keep pressed) the red button so it disables all ink monitoring (not recommended I guess, and only necessary if you don't have ARCs)?
  6. In case of a chip-triggered red cross while there is actually enough ink left, you can still print, so in that case you don't have to refill yet. However, beware of contamination due to low ink levels (especially with Chinese/aftermarket carts??).
  7. Also a question mark (?) or an exclamation mark (!) can be shown, instead of a red cross (x). Not sure when this happens? Is that only with the one-time chips? Which then always show ! or ?, until hardware ink flow monitoring detects that a cart is empty at which point it will still show a red cross? In that case one-timers would not be so bad to use. The only thing is that you lose ink level monitoring of the cart's ink consumption. I guess the one-time chip just has some trick to confuse the printer (a question mark means it doesn't know the ink level but it still detects ink flow via flow detection). Or do I have this all wrong? Please explain!
  8. You can also choose to forgo using ARCs and ink level monitoring using the chips and just refill all carts every 2500 pages or so. In this case, if the hardware detection system reads empty for one of the colours does it still give a red cross when truly empty? Or only when you put in one-time chips? Because I guess with ARCs it may give off a chip-triggered red cross as well, so you don't know when it's truly empty and the cross is actually also a flow sensor triggered one?
  9. In the previous point, the use of one-time chips and just waiting until a red cross is probably unadvisable for Chinese carts, because they are not supposed to get too empty as they risk contaminating other carts (see point 3).
  10. If you forgo chip-induced ink level monitoring you have to replace the carts by using the "power plug trick". Otherwise the printer does not allow you to have "official" access to the carts. But then again, will it not show a red cross when the ink flow sensor detects a low ink level, after which it might allow replacing??? So the power plug trick is not necessary at all?
I numbered them for you to refer to. :)

I probably got a few points wrong, or some points might not be clear yet within our community and require further experimentation. Anyway, I look forward to your replies, so that I can make a plan and choose how I am going to refill my printer!
After almost 3 years, 25.000 pages and 2 liters of ink:
1. Refill the OEM's.
2. Do this as explained on the octopus-office.de site.
3. The Chinese carts do not have a real bag as the OEM, only a tiny membrane to adjust pressure more or less (probably the bag is patented or to difficult/expensive to copy).
4. Use ARC's, less than €/$ 10 at Aliexpress. They reset only to full when inserted after been empty (=red cross). The ? or blank status is only temporary, when you switch the printer off and on again the red cross appears.
5. The ink monitoring seems to be in the first place to trigger cleaning cycles when there is no ink, I am not sure if will change the chip status.
6. You can continue to print with a red cross, with OEM carts ink contamination is not frequent and never catastrophic.
7,8,9.10. The Maxify does not force you to disable ink monitoring as other Canon printers do, but it will not accept a cart with a chip showing empty. Since ARC's are not much more expensive than one time chips this is the obvious solution. OEM 2500XL carts contain 70 and 20ml, you can print a long time with it, so the larger volume of the Chinese carts is not an argument (and yes, you can refill your setup carts to the full XL volume). You need a scale to refill the OEM's if not you never know how much ink you have, and overfilling creates a mess.
You can wait until the ARC shows empty to refill the cart. You can do this by opening the front door and the printer will present the empty cart just as a regular Canon user. You have all the time to refill the same cart, and the chip will show full again.
You can also choose to refill all the carts together. You need to pull the plug or fumble with the wheel then. The ARC's will not reset to full but there will be always at least as much ink in them than indicated, so you can continue to print when the chip shows empty. With this method you will only have one priming cycle (takes some time and ink, and regularly you need extra cleaning cycles to get a good nozzle check).
You can guess somewhat how long you go with your ink to determine an interval, you can also watch the output closely to detect low ink. The printhead is quite forgiving.
A well organised person could keep record of the cartridges that have been refilled when the chip showed empty - the ones showing a true ink level. When one of these show empty again you refill the whole set.
 
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ColourKid

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Thanks @palombian! I now know what to buy. Please allow me some more mulling about the details, just for understanding this device better.

5. The ink monitoring seems to be in the first place to trigger cleaning cycles when there is no ink, I am not sure if will change the chip status.
Seems my theory may not be entirely right then about point 7-8 :\. Although if it's true that the hardware flow sensor does not change the cart status if empty (to a red cross), then how do the one-time/permanent chips at some point indicate a red cross according to this manual?: https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/For-CA...le-Ink-Cartridge-PGI-2500-2500XL/120903805808

1596995924359.png


Not sure why they write "XX" instead of just a single X but I was under the impression that "one-time" means that it can have real-time ink level monitoring the first time you use it, and afterwards it will just show an exclamation mark (!). Until it's empty, and then it will always show a red cross. Or is that not the case and it only will also show a red cross only at the first time of use?


Since ARC's are not much more expensive than one time chips this is the obvious solution.
I agree!

I would be nice though if we can use the one-time chips to test if the hardware flow sensor comes up with a red cross once it's really empty, as per the above, since I understand we're not sure how the flow sensor changes the ink level status. It would be great though to have that as a hardware monitoring ink empty detection system.

That would be a bit like my IP4000R of many years ago, which had transparent carts with a prism inside, and the printer had some kind of LED and a sensor that could then sense if there was still ink in the cart or not. It didn't have a chip at all and the level was just sort of calculated before it showed empty by this system. But this oligopoly situation of the big printer manufacturers precludes such a system, I guess. They rather want to have total control via chips over when you can still print. *Sigh*

You need a scale to refill the OEM's if not you never know how much ink you have, and overfilling creates a mess.
That's good advice. Although I didn't read anything about this in Octopus.de's manual or video. I think I read somewhere that if ink comes out instead of air when pulling with the syringe this means it is full?
 
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palombian

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The updated info on octopus-office.de shows in the center of the bag there is a vent that leads to the second aperture in the cart (above the ink outlet). At maximum level the ink does not come above this vent.
The printhead has a hollow needle that connects to this vent. No idea why, maybe it only leads to an internal tube with an aperture on top to let air in without any chance of ink leaks.
Chinese carts don't have this second aperture (maybe patented also).
Some advise to place a plug in this second aperture when refilling the OEM.
I tried this and saw no difference. Plugging could make it possible to overfill maybe creating other problems.
Just refill the OEM's up to the original weight and forget about it.
 
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