Glossy Paper Not Absorb Pigment Ink

[thanhhuy123]

Hi,

In an attempt to try pigment ink on glossy paper, I did this:

Print an picture, using HP Everyday Glossy Photo Paper on HP Deskjet Ink Advantage 5525. Set to Plain Paper and Black Ink Only so it only uses ink from the black pigment ink cartridge (this printer has pigment K and dye CMY).

The result is: after printout, let it sit for a few second to let the ink dry, I can easy rub off the ink on the surface of the paper! Look like the ink is not absorb or stick to the paper.

There are many people successfully print pigment ink on glossy paper, but I don't know why this fail?

 

[Fenrir Enterprises]

That's very strange. I've used Everyday paper in a HP 8500A (940/940XL cartridges) which is pigment for all 4 colors and it worked fine. There were gloss papers that did not work, I think it was Staples' Basic paper, back when it used to come in a red box.

The only thing I can think of is that maybe the paper is from a different manufacturer than the one in the US.

I printed Image Specialists inks onto Everyday paper from an Epson 1400 and it won't scratch off at all unless I actually scratch the paper up. All colors are fine.

You may want to see if you can get small or sample packs of whatever papers you are able to get locally there and see if any of them work. Usually I see the opposite problem, HP papers don't work well in anything but an HP printer. The Everyday paper is supposed to be "universal" but the Premium Plus papers really only work in HPs, I remember trying them in an Epson and a Canon (dye) and the black areas came out green.

 

[RogerB]

Hi,
There are many people successfully print pigment ink on glossy paper, but I don't know why this fail?

Black pigment inks come in two varieties - matte and gloss (MK and PK). The matte is only for matte paper (surprised?). The gloss includes a binder that makes it stick to the glossy paper. Unfortunately the gloss black gives a lower density when used on matte paper, so your black intended for text is a matte ink to achieve the best black density.

 

[PeterBJ]

The pigment black used by the HP Deskjet Ink Advantage 5525 is intended for text printing on plain paper only. It is no good for photo printing. Instead a dye black (photo black) is used for photo printing. Pigment inks for photo printing might have a totally different composition. Also many photo papers are suitable only for dye inks.

 

[thanhhuy123]

Wow! It's complicated.

I didn't mention one thing: I don't use OEM ink cart, I refill my cart with Inkmate black pigment ink for HP DesignJet 500/800. Is that the problem, beside the paper one?

Yes, I see all Epson printers here are used with CISS and Inktec pigment ink (some use pigment-UV for couche/art paper printing) and Chinese cheap glossy photo paper.

How to know a black is glossy/matte?

 

[Fenrir Enterprises]

You would have to ask your supplier. You should still try the ink you already have with different brands of paper just to see if another one works better.

I've always heard about MK/PK being different for black density on matte papers, but if sticking to gloss was an issue how come there aren't M/P versions of all other colors in the printer? I suspect it has more to do with the manufacturer (and if it doesn't stick that doesn't necessarily mean the ink is bad). Frankly I'm amazed the Everyday works in my Epson, since I've always found HP branded papers to be "weird".

 

[The Hat]

IF I print on any of my dye Canon printers when it’s set to use plain paper and I use glossy paper instead then the black ink will not stick to the glossy surface, it walks off the surface. (Never dry)

So the answer is yes the two black inks are completely different even on the Canon printers.

However when using the pigment only printers where the black inks are quite different
than they are on the standard Dye +1 pigment printer the results are the same. (Explained)

If I print a B&W photo on the pigment only printer and set that to use plain paper but use the glossy paper instead (As described above), the ink will not dry either just like on the dye printers.

BUT If I do the same print again but this time set the printer to use and print on the glossy paper, guess what the pigment printer will then use the two black inks matte/photo together
but this time the inks will dry instantly. (correctly)

 

[RogerB]

I've always heard about MK/PK being different for black density on matte papers, but if sticking to gloss was an issue how come there aren't M/P versions of all other colors in the printer?

In a pigment ink set all the colour inks are glossy and they work on glossy or matte paper. The gloss black will work on matte paper but gives a weaker black than the MK, which is generally pure carbon.

 

[thanhhuy123]

Wow, it mess up my brain!!

There is something...yes, something...I'm curious about that "something" the printer does with ink, paper, and everything else...

Mine is 3 dye + 1 pigment, so actually there's no way to force it using black pigment other than set to plain paper. And...yes, the printer "do something" when it's in Plain paper mode...

My friend, using HP Officejet where all 4 ink are pigmented. He refill using the same black ink like me, but he doesn't has this problem! HP Support also refer to the same glossy photo paper for their all-pigment Officejet series.



PS: Hey! I found out from Epson that in their all-pigment 4 ink printer, when printing on glossy photo paper, they make black by combining 3 pigment color ink...=> The black ink in K channel must be very..."unique" (The Hat, what's the correct English word here??? I'm thinking of a word...but really can't bring it out of my head.)

 

[thanhhuy123]

The pigment black used by the HP Deskjet Ink Advantage 5525 is intended for text printing on plain paper only. It is no good for photo printing. Instead a dye black (photo black) is used for photo printing. Pigment inks for photo printing might have a totally different composition. Also many photo papers are suitable only for dye inks.

I heard that pigment ink can be used on glossy paper, like Epson and HP Officejet series => curious to try it with my printer => pool it by set to Plain Paper mode, the only way of forcing it to use black pigment channel => now I know there's black pigment inks, not ink.