German method: what if the needle won't penetrate the sponge?

[PenguinLust]

This place is turning into a second home to me. Now my problem is that I'm trying to get the needle into the ink reservoir, but it's having a hard time penetrating the sponge, on this BCI-6 yellow cartridge, which I need to clean out, because it's been contaminated. I'm pretty sure it's OEM. Has the sponge just become too coarse or something to allow penetration? Is the only thing left to do throw it out and get a new one? In trying to force the needle through, the sponge has already compressed by about 1/4", although it doesn't seem to have affected the outlet.

 

[iP4XXX]

Are you using blunt needles? I've had some that were a little stubborn, so I rotate the needle back and forth (clockwise then counter clockwise) as I insert it. Also, you might check to make sure the tip of the needle is smooth with no burrs on it.

 

[PenguinLust]

Bingo! They are blunt. But rotating them cw and ccw was probably more effective than back and forth ever would have been. Thanks.
I'm hoping the displacement on the sponge (which, again, hasn't effected the part of the sponge at the outlet) won't make a difference.

 

[l_d_allan]

Now my problem is that I'm trying to get the needle into the ink reservoir, but it's having a hard time penetrating the sponge, on this BCI-6 yellow cartridge

So far, I've been using the "traditional top refill method" by inserting ink through the inlet port. Seems to be workng fine.

I'm considering trying the "German refill method", perhaps at first on an oem cart I don't need for refilling that is for experiments/testing. One reason for my reluctance is concerns about the needle going through the sponge/foam. Over time, after a number of refills, it seems like this would be hard on the sponge/foam.

In an earlier long thread about the "anatomy of a Canon cartridge", there were illustrations and descriptions of the intricate construction of the cart ... especially the "air maze ... labyrinth serpentine". My worry is that changes to the sponge/foam detracts from the cart performing as Canon designed it to perform.

Is this a legitimate concern? Or not really an issue?

 

[stratman]

PenguinL:

If the sponge is caked and dried, consider hydrating it with water. Whether you pour/squirt/force water in through the ink injection port or through the Durchstich hole (but without going all the way through the sponge), the effect will be to make the sponge more compliant to your needle.

You can turn the cartridge upside down and direct the water from the faucet down onto the ink ejection port. This will cause water to drain from the air vent on top as well as any other hole(s) you have poked into the cartridge.

Depending on your ingenuity, you can rig something up from the faucet to the ink injection port, such as with tubing, or modify a syringe to fit into/over the ink ejection port and squirt water in. You've already been using the Durchstitch hole to flush. If that works for you, good.

The idea is to make the sponge softer and more receptive to the introduction of the needle. Some people use sharp tipped needles (I never have), some have sharpened on side of a blunt tipped needle (I don't recommend due to increased metal fatigue and increased risk breakage), or using some sharper tipped object link a long needle to make the initial tunnel through the sponge.

The idea with the Durchstich process is to introduce the needle low down on the cartridge and traverse the least amount of sponge possible. At the bottom of a CLI-8 and PGI-5 cartridge are the following characters:

">PP<" (without the quotation marks!)

I make the Durchstich hole as close as possible between the "PP" (no quotation marks again!) with a push pin, the bottom of the Durchstich hole ~ 1/8 inch from the external bottom of the cartridge, and rotating while angling the push pin once the hole is made to enlarge the hole a little bit more since I use a snug fitting 18 gauge blunt needle. Then I insert the 18 gauge needle attached to the syringe and use forward pressure with some clockwise/counterclockwise rotation to push the needle in and down. The result is that the needle only traverses through sponge ~ 1/16 inch and the rest of the way the needle is traveling along on the plastic base of the cartridge.

You want to avoid disturbing the sponge material as best you can. If the sponge moves, rap the cartridge bottom (or side depending on where the sponge is) to re-seat the sponge in its proper location. Avoid hitting the ink ejection port as you might deform it and loose a tight seal in your print head.

If you are interested in a flushing/cleaning/conditioning solution other than water then the following might interest you.




Nifty-Stuff.com Pharmacist's cartridge flush/conditioning solution recipe again:

-3 % propylene glycol (or 2 % glycerin)
-20 % isopropyl alcohol
-distilled water up to 100 %

To make this conditioning solution a cleaning solution to dissolve stubborn stains: add 5 drops of concentrated ammonia per 100 ml of this solution. This solution has been tested by several forum members already and they are very happy with it. It also enhances the absorption degree of ink into the sponge after flushing, especially with the difficult pigment based BCI-3eBK/PGI-5Bk cartridge.



Conditioning: after flushing the sponge has difficulty to absorb the ink well and tends to be become a bit hydrofobic (water repellent). By completely immerge and drenching the sponge material with this solution and then blowing as much solution as possible the sponge is revived again. The pigment BCI-3eBK/PGI-5Bk is the most difficult one and using this conditioning solution improves the absorption degree of your favourite refill pigment ink.

Cleaning: fill a cartridge with this solution (with ammonia) and execute a deep cleaning cycle to remove stubborn and tenacious clogging.



20 ml isopropanol (isopropyl alcohol)
80 ml distilled water
10 drops of propylene glycol
(optional: 5 drops of concentrated ammonia)


Ammonia Concentration: if used in cleaning cycle stick with 5 drops per 100 ml and when used to soak printheads externally increase it to 20-25 drops.

Fold a paper towell into a nice thick and even strip and drench it with the cleaning solution and put it under the printhead and let it soak for about 1 hour. After that, execute one cleaning cycle.


25-30 % ammonia: this is concentrated ammonia. If you use household concentration, increase accordingly.

Standard household ammonia in the UK is 9% w/w (weight for weight)

 

[stratman]

I'm considering trying the "German refill method", perhaps at first on an oem cart I don't need for refilling that is for experiments/testing. One reason for my reluctance is concerns about the needle going through the sponge/foam. Over time, after a number of refills, it seems like this would be hard on the sponge/foam.

If you follow directions and don't do something extraordinary, then no. There has been discussion about air bubbles in the channel made by the needle in the sponge. Ultimately, a flush resolved the issue if simpler methods didn't work. Otherwise, there are posters with dozens of refills without issue. YMMV

In an earlier long thread about the "anatomy of a Canon cartridge", there were illustrations and descriptions of the intricate construction of the cart ... especially the "air maze ... labyrinth serpentine". My worry is that changes to the sponge/foam detracts from the cart performing as Canon designed it to perform.

See above. Problems in this area usually are if you overfill or get flush water in the air vent, then you just blow into the air vent to remove the fluid from the air vent mechanism. If you get sponge in the air vent, maybe refilling isn't your gig, at least the Durchstich method.

There's always someone who gets themselves into the most unusual circumstances. Post if you do.

 

[jimbo123]

as suggested by the stratman.... i use a sharp 1" needle first before i use my 2" blunt needle. you only need to do this once, since after you've successfully refilled you'll have a clear shot next time.

i've set up 3 sets of 5 ink cartridges/printers for friends/family who are now all successfully refilling using the german method, blunt needles and squeeze bottles. i do the drilling and push a pilot hole through the sponge with a sharp needle so to set up each ink cart. i leave the rest to them and they have all been amazed at how easy it is.

i have not seen any sponge deterioration over time. been refilling for 3 years, my current PGI5 cart has been refilled 68 times, my 4 CLI8's are all original, each been refilled over 20 times.

here is what works for me: german method, squeeze bottles, blunt needles, resetter, hobbicolors ink, canon carts, never purged or taped

J

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Printers: Canon MP830, IP4500, MX700, MX860, MP980
Method: German Durchstich Method
Ink: Hobbicolors ink, PMT-BK, UW8
Misc: Squeeze bottles - so much easier than syringes