Color shift of profile patch sheets

Ink stained Fingers

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Oh yes, I forgot that 3D printing does not need a profile and you don't need to wait until the inks are dry..........or do you ?
 

stratman

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don't need to wait until the inks are dry
No, but it seems like forever till the print job is done, sometimes more than 24 hours!

3D printing isn't for young ones that can't wait (impatience) or old ones that shouldn't wait (green banana scenario).

True story: My uncle's water heater leaked. He had insurance and the repairman came out to give to replace it, proudly telling my uncle that the new water heater had a 20 year warranty. My uncle replied "I'm 92 and won't live that long." Uncle is now 97 and going strong. I think he'll see another new water heater.
 
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Ink stained Fingers

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I can update the little table from above and add a line for the total averaged color shifts of the target sheet after 1 week

_____________deltaE
1 h to 3 h____0,30
1 h to 8 h____0,52
1 h to 1 d____0,70
1 h to 1 w____0.98


so yes, there are further small color shifts during this week, but keep in mind that you have very similar shifts with your actual prints. The 'biggest' - deltaE=0.6 - happens within the first hour after printing the patch sheet - on this type of paper .
 

maximilian59

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These are mean values of the 96 patches I suppose. What are the maximum deviations and what colors are affected?
on RC papers a few hours are more ok. Especially cast coated papers showed sometimes a big shift in the darks, also cheap RC papers.
 

Ink stained Fingers

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Yes, and it's very much a paper issue - as always, and it's as well a question what you want to acheive ; I may do quick profiles - with a low patch count and scan them after 1 hour - for information to compare with other papers in the same sequence or I may use a higher patch count, print today and scan next day for a profile I may use later.
The av. deltaE - totalled over 96 patches - is 0.98, the peak value is 1.6 for a single patch - I just don't have the color available, it's on another computer. You could look into the detail values of individual colors, looking for a trend - do all colors move into the same direction or not - what are saturated vs. lighter colors doing etc but that's beyond my current interest.
You could run a wider test - with diffferent types of papers - cast coated - resin coated/PE - matte - fabric - Baryta etc - every coating will have its own characteristics - but I won't , already this test with one type of paper shows you should follow simple and general statements about the drying time with caution - even more when Datacolor states 15 min is already good enough for their way of generating a profile - inherent variations in their process - math - equipment - may not yield a better, more accurate profile if you would wait longer.
 

Artur5

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Very interesting information @ink stainedFingers. Thanks for dedicating your time and skills to this matter. :)

My usual workflow for profiling with the Color Munki is to print the first sheet of patches and wait overnight for scanning. Then i1studio generates the second sheet and, again, I don't scan it until next day. So it takes 48 hours for a single profile. I realize that this is overkill and very unpractical for doing lots of profiles, but I'm not in a hurry. My Color Munki stays idle for weeks or even months before I need to make a new profile.
 
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maximilian59

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Yes, and it's very much a paper issue - as always, and it's as well a question what you want to acheive ; I may do quick profiles - with a low patch count and scan them after 1 hour - for information to compare with other papers in the same sequence or I may use a higher patch count, print today and scan next day for a profile I may use later.
The av. deltaE - totalled over 96 patches - is 0.98, the peak value is 1.6 for a single patch - I just don't have the color available, it's on another computer. You could look into the detail values of individual colors, looking for a trend - do all colors move into the same direction or not - what are saturated vs. lighter colors doing etc but that's beyond my current interest.
You could run a wider test - with diffferent types of papers - cast coated - resin coated/PE - matte - fabric - Baryta etc - every coating will have its own characteristics - but I won't , already this test with one type of paper shows you should follow simple and general statements about the drying time with caution - even more when Datacolor states 15 min is already good enough for their way of generating a profile - inherent variations in their process - math - equipment - may not yield a better, more accurate profile if you would wait longer.
Yes it is a proof of concept without the need to test everything. It is well known among a lot of people making profiles that waiting a few hours is good, better one night but more doesn’t help much. For pigmented inks you can have a look here: https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=122553.msg1020513#msg1020513
So with 12 hours I think I am on the sure side.
 
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stratman

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Environmental conditions certainly affect drying time.

My question is what do the spectrophotometer manufacturers suggest for drying time. Are any meters designed for wet reads like Pantone's or is the meter expecting a dry print. Follow your manufacturer's recommendation. Right?

Here is X-Rite / Calabrite's own recommendation for the Colormunchi:

1633900744166.png


5-10 minutes. Any longer would be counting fairies on the head of a pin according to Colormunki.


What does your spectrophotometer instructions advise?
 

Artur5

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I use a Color Munki spectro with i1Studio software. As you say, they recommend 10 minutes.
 
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