Changing Colors

[Tin Ho]

Out of curiosity I recently tested 3 Canon printers. One old, one not so old, and one that is pretty new. The old one is an ip4000. The not so old one is an ip4300 and the new one is an ip4700. All 3 printers have OEM ink carts in them. The photo paper I have on hand is a HP premium glossy photo paper.

I was surprised to discover that the colors changed obviously from one printer to another. The photos all looked fabulously. I know my printers are all in good health. The change of colors must be contributed by the differences among the printers. These three printers use 3 generations of ink carts, BCI-6, CLI-8 and CLI-221.

Does anyone experience anything like this too? I am not talking about big differences. All photos looked great. By looking at each one individually there is nothing wrong with the colors. But when I put all three side by side I could feel that they are different. They are all excellent. But there are differences. This is quite interesting.

If you ever tested similar photo printers of Epson, HP and Canon side by side your will not be too surprised that they all print colors differently. But changing colors among 3 Canon printers is a little shocking to me.

I know that this can be contributed by many factors. Printer firmware, ink and profiles are all likely the causes. My question is why Canon did not eliminate the differences by the firmware or by profiling? Why the difference among the 3 manufacturers are so significant?

 

[fotofreek]

My i960 photo prints were much "warmer" - toward the red side - than on the ip5000. Same paper, same ink, same bci-6 cartridges. There are differences from model to model, even with the same ink. The different inks induce another variable.

 

[websnail]

I can only comment on the inks that IS provide as compatible for each but there's been differences between each version:

BCI-6 -> CLI-8 : (changes) Magenta, Photo Black
CLI-8 -> CLI-221/521 : (changes) Cyan, Pigment Black
CLI-221/521 -> 226/526 : (changes) Cyan (back to CLI-8/BCI-6 version)

Obviously change one thing and it changes everything... that and you have to remember drivers change how the ink is distributed too.

 

[nche11]

Basically it is a fact to live with. Printing a same photo on a same paper, unless it is by a same model of printer, you will not get same colors. When a printer manufacturer releases new ink for new printers there will be color differences when the photo is printed on these new printers. If it is printed by a printer of a different brand name the differences sometimes can be dramatic. We will probably never know what is the real cause foe this differences. I am not convinced that the ink is the main cause. I believe the profile, the printer's core print engine and the ink are equally significant for the resulting color differences.

What is really interesting is when we moved from BCI-6 to CLI-8 it's really like moving from a 3rd party ink A to B, assuming A and B are both good quality ink. When Canon made us to move from CLI-8 to CLI-221 it's like forcing us to move again from 3rd party B ink to C. I don't remember we ever complained that BCI-6 ink was bad. Nor did we complain about CLI-8 or CLI-221 ink. We simply accepted them and we simply liked them regardless of the change. Some people like EPson colors and some like Canon's. The differences between the two do not matter.

What this implies to me is it really doesn't matter what brand of refill ink we use assuming the ink is of good quality and safe to use. Brand A and brand B may be different but it is really just like brand CLI-8 or brand CLI-221. If you like A more than B go for the A. There will be lots of people who prefer B over A or the other way around.

Most of us have been smart a$$es to know this fact and have enjoyed the low cost of refill ink for a very long time. Now this brings up a question of mine. Why do people want to pay big bucks for custom profile tools that only make them feel they are moving from ink B to ink C? Don't start to discuss about this though. Just think about it.

 

[Tin Ho]

Fotofreek, I had i950 and i960 before. I still have fond memories about the two printers. They are better photo printers than printers that only use BK, C, M, Y colors of ink. My ip4000 is a document work horse. It is not my choice for printing photos. Yes, the i950 and i960 have a reddish tint on skin tones. I heard that it's how Japanese like skin tone to be that way. Canon probably heard of the complaint so it was removed from later and newer printers.

Websnail, my ip4700 prints a blue that was never seen from any earlier printers. When I wanted to print Cyan it gave me the blue look too. I thought it was how Canon make the low end printer that way. It prints photo just fine. Can't complain about it too much. The only problem is when side by side comparing with other printers you will see the difference and that is puzzling. I have to question what is Canon doing by this.

If Canon changed the Cyan in CLI-226/526 back to the Cyan ink in CLI-8 that seems to make sense.

Nche11, that's a good point. I constantly wonder what the real advantage there is when brand A is said to be better than Brand B. The answer better be brand A has better colors than brand B. Custom profiling may be able to make brand B equally good or better than brand A in this case. I think it will do more than that. Custom profiling can make a ink to reveal all its potential of its gamut. You can perceive it as changing an ink into another ink. But there is more to that. The default profiles provided by Canon are really good enough for me, including using 3rd party inks. I am not into profiling. I do not need other advantages profiling offers.

 

[qwertydude]

The way I see profiling as an advantage is the ability to be flexible in my medias. I can change inks if I feel like it, I can change papers, and even different texture paper show colors differently. A profiler takes all those variables away and levels the playing field among different boutique inks.

 

[The Hat]

I have five canon printer i865, ip4300, ip4500, ip4700, ix4000 and using the same Canon profile
on all of them they all printed the (Digital dog) great but all different.
I used the very same ink on all of them but they are all just slightly different, it doesnt bother me at all.
Now I have noticed that on (Win 7) there are a number of profiles provided by Canon automatically
for the different papers that each of the printers use.
So if you change the paper type in your print setup youll most likely get a totally different profile.

 

[Tin Ho]

It is intriguing to me that the colors changed from one printer or from one ink to another within a same brand of printers. There was nothing wrong about BCI-6 ink or i960. Actually the i9900 is a great performer. When Canon moved away from these the new printers printed colors differently. Why? They may argue that the new ink is better. But what about moving from CLI-8 to CLI-221? CLI-8 ink remained to be the ink for Pro9000. It must be their best ink. This told us that CLI-8 ink is not a problematic ink. The newer printers use a different ink for a reason not being better.

I suspect that Canon's changes of inks was not for the purposes of better colors. They were for the purposes of defeating 3rd party inks. The mind behind changing the physical shape of the cartridges was an obvious one. Canon can argue that adding chips reduced mistakes of installing wrong cartridges. But why changing from CLI-8 to CLI-221 then to CLI-226?

 

[mikling]

Actually the change happened in the CLI-221. The recommended cyan by IS was compromised. I found this out the hard way. IS now recommends that you change back to the CLI-8 version because the recommended cyan for the 221 was too weak in many aspects. It looks like they got some feedback as well, and then the CLI-8 verison is stronger but differs makedly from the real OEM 221 cyan.... and so did the yellow and magenta.

In my opinion that is also compromised as well. I have been testing this intensely and in the end, neither recommended color will suffice if you are into accurate colors. In reality, the cyan, yellow and magenta changed when Canon moved to the CLI-221 generation not just the cyan.

I went to work, spent many many hours testing printing, measuring and in the end I came up with something that I can be proud of. You can see it here. I must have done over two hundred cartridge purges and close to the end I kept my fingers crossed that the waste ink pad would not come up. Well it did not but a chip did not make it .

Here is what the results of my work was......today a day before my trip I finalized it.

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=6150

The standard IS recommended insket pales in comparison. All inks used in the blends was IS so I was not making my inks. I had over 100 colors to pick and choose and blend from. Let's say this, it isn't easy! and now when I hear about Universal Inks, pick me up from the floor from laughter.

 

[Tin Ho]

Canon has had at least 4 generations of ink. The change from BCI-6 to CLI-8 was not so troublesome. CLI-221 ink set is not only different it is a poorer ink in my opinion. However, It is not a bad ink set. My ip4700 still prints reasonably good photos. I am puzzled why Canon made the move away from CLI-8 ink. It is interesting that this actually gave people a lesson that custom profiling can not remedy completely the impact from the changes of ink.

Mikling, you don't need to mess with Image Specialists ink trying to bring it closer to your taste. You can't do it with so many different brand of printers and inks. Every combination of printer, brand and ink can mean different colors. I have given up profiling in my effort to obtain some consistency among the printers I use. The color rendition between Epson printers and Canon is distinctly distanced. There is no way to bring them closer. Now the colors are changing within Canon groups of printers. I am doing more Photoshop than ever.

The color differences are not caused by the differences of high end and low end printers. It is the ink and profiles for the printers that made the differences. I believe the fundamental issue is caused by the changes of ink.