Amount of ink = how many cartridges/refills?

[rainy]

Hi! This forum has been so incredibly helpful and informative. Thanks so much to all of you who post your reviews and advice.

Surprise, I am hoping for more help:
If I'm buying 8oz of each color (12oz black), how many blank cartridge sets should I get? I was thinking 2, since I have functional OEMs.
And how many do I need if I'm willing/able to clean them?

And/or:
How does a given amount of ink translate into number of refills? I know it's a matter of how much you fill and how much is still in the tank/sponge, so I'm asking in straight volume or in functional use, how many refills I would get per 1 oz. (30mL?) of ink?

Lastly:
How much is 8oz in printing terms? Besides coverage and pages and so on, just subjectively? It seems like a lot and yet very little. I've always been a stingy printer because I didn't know there were good refill options, however with all my new found knowledge I can still only afford so much ink. I don't even know what I'm going to do with it, but I'm wondering if it's "enough".

I know these are less than perfectly answerable questions, so any input you have is appreciated.

Various info:
- Canon i560 (BCI-3eBK, BCI-6C/M/Y)
- I've decided on Hobbicolors because of the good reviews, excellent prices, reasonable shipping to Canada and great service. (I've sent several emails with multiple questions... most answered promptly and thoroughly - the rest I'm letting slide since there were a lot, ha ha)


Thanks for reading, thanks doubly for responding.

 

[Osage]

I have somewhat been interested in the same question---without actually dong the sciece stuff my self I rely on a post by JV on bukinkjetcarts----where he by weight determined that a Canon BCI-6 contained 14 ml of ink---and the low ink light came on with 3.5 ml of ink left in sponge----vs. the non-OEM competitor only starting with only 12.7 ml of ink and low ink coming on with 4.2 ml of ink left. But that sheds some light on cartridge efficency----75% vs. 67% and volume used to refill as somewhere between 8.5 to 10.5 ml per BCI-6.

I have not found any data on the larger text black and if one can safely double those figures.---but the other point is that a refiller in theory gets 100% ink efficency while those who pitch their empty cartridges are failing to use much ink left in the sponge.

But using the fact Canon claims 500 5% coverage page of text out of a BCI-3ebk--and assuming that it takes about double or 20 ML to refill after initial fill, that means about 750 pages or so per ounce of ink--or 6000 pages per 8 oz. bottle----or 16/100 cents per text page assuming $9.50 per 8 ounce bottle of hobbicolor ink----considering the same cartridge OEM list from Canon is $14.-----it works out to be about a mere 18x reduction in ink consumable costs.

In the abscience of better figures, I take a some comfort in the 18x ballpark number.--which should be somewhere close to reality on hobbicolors vs. Canon OEM ink consumable costs. But am eagar to hear from any who can come up with more precise numbers.

I also note that the highly respected MIS ink lists for $85.00 per gallon in gallon lots---while 16 eight once bottles of hobbicolor would cost $152.00---and MIS ink costs heck of a lot more than $9.50 in an 8 ounce bottle. So lots of jokers in costing things out.--considering I measure my ink consumtions at less than a gallons per century---and the ink has a 2 year shelf life.

But if the 18 x cost reduction number even remotely applies to the most expensive form of ink jet printing which is photoprinting----its too compelling to pass up.

 

[neal]

10 ml of ink will print about 200 pages (5% covered area) of same color. If all colors are mixed 10 ml (each color) will print about 800 pages. See my post about i950- I have printed 20,000 pages from about 200 oz of mixed colored ink. Neil

 

[Osage]

To Neil,

Reading this post and your referenced post---a few things puzzle me about your math.

1. You state that you have printed 20,000 pages with 200 oz. of ink---or 100 pages per ounce---which would be about 33.82 pages per 10 ml increment.--so given that, I have to conclude you are doing alot of photoprinting to bias those figures.

2. In terms of your i950, which mixes colors to get black because it lacks the large
BCI-3ebk, I can see about where you get those numbers---or 40 ml of ink to print
800 pages text black at 5% coverage---and assuming a BCI-3ebk OEM cartridge probably only has 20 ML of usable ink---40 ml or two cartridges at $28.00 list would produce a canon claimed 1000 pages.

3. Just went to the alotofthings.com web page and see the list price for six 16 ounces bottles of refill ink required for the i950 is now $99.95--or a current price of about $1.04 per ounce of ink.------or $133.27 a US gallon current alotofthings
list price of ink in that six bottle 16 oz. quanity.

Taking JV's figures that a BCI-6 OEM cartridge at $12.00 list has only 10.5 ml of usable ink---computes out to taking 2.815 $12.00 cartriges to make up an ounce
of usable ink--------or $4323.43 per US gallon of usable Canon ink for someone who buys a BCI-6 Canon OEM cartridge at full list price and uses it until the low ink light comes on.--and then buys another BCI-6 cartridges. Which works out to you saving at $4323.43/$133.27 or a factor of 33.44x on a BCI-6 cartridge ink.
Which somewhat puts my 18x estimated factor to shame.

Using that same type math on the larger BCI-3ebk and assuming 20 ML of usable OEM ink in a $14.00 OEM cartridge get the Canon list price per usable gallon down to a mere $2648.10 or a 19.87x cost factor over alotofthings current list price.

Somewhere in all this, Neil-------I think you saved a bundle.----and even if I have some wrong assumtions or made of some slight math errors.--using four and five significant figure math when my assumtions may not be accurate to 2 significant figures.

I still vehemently defend the term saving a "bundle."

 

[fotofreek]

Since the i560 isn't the latest printer (I use an i960 - similar vintage) I would suggest that you consider your printing volume and the age of the printer in deciding how much ink to buy. If your printing volume is fairly low and you want to use hobbicolors inks you might consider getting a basic Hobbicolors kit. 2 oz each of the bci-6 ink actually goes a long way with moderate use! Remember that these printers have a limited lifespan and the next generation of Canon printers use different carts and slightly different inks. If you try to maximize your savings with a large volume purchase you run the risk of having several ounces of ink sitting on your shelf that you can't use if/when your printer dies. On a stretch I would consider calling Hobbicolors to see if they have 4 oz per bottle kits. It would be false economy to get the best price per ounce on gallons of ink and have the printer die after using, say, six ounces of each color! The reality is that the Hobbicolor kits are so cheap (with the added bonus of the empty carts) that you save lots of money with the first kit.

I started with two ounce containers and bought one set of backup cartridges. I used Neil Slade's technique of refilling on the fly. I bought the Computer Friends blue plugs for sealing the original fill hole in the OEM carts after pushing the little ball into the cart. They can be removed easily as there is a tab on them. On the opening page or this forum, click on Neil Slade's link and read his stuff on inks and refilling. I subsequently purchased additional carts to have three backup sets. If your print runs are fairly large you should have one or more backup sets. With extremely large print runs you may need several backup sets so you can continue to print without interuption and refill later.

Osage was right on target with the info on cart capacity and ink remaining when the low warning shows up. Most of us do not wait for the low ink warning but check the carts visually and replace or refill them when there is about 15 - 20% ink left in the reservoir part of the cart. I haven't really measured the amount of ink to refill, but I think it has been 6 to 9 oz, depending on how low you let the reservoir area get. When comparing your cost against OEM Canon inks, remember that you throw away the remaining few ounces of ink in the sponge area when replacing a cart. When refilling, you retain that ink, so nearly all of the refill ink gets onto your prints and not into the landfill.

I am using a six color printer and the photo cyan and photo magenta tanks empty fastest, followed by yellow. Sometimes I will replace all the carts when two or three are low and refill the entire set I've removed even though some may only take a few oz. Part of the time involved in the refill process is getting everything ready and cleaning up afterward, so it is easier to refill several tanks at once.

 

[hpnetserver]

i560 may not look a late model but it is equivalent to ip3000 which is a very late model as of last year. The main difference between i560 and ip3000 is in the duplex printing. i560 does not have duplex mode. I had an ip3000 briefly last year. I sent it back to the store because of a problem in print head alignment. The store took it back but I did not get another one. I was quite impressed by its speed in printing text though. Printing photo was much alower. But the photo quality was no doubt first class. With proper care, clog prevention measure in mind always, it will be a workhorse to print a lot and save a lot if you use 3rd party ink. I regret not getting one and can not find one any more. I am stuck with my old HP deskjet for slow text printing for now.

 

[rainy]

Wow, that was fast... and thorough : ) There's something very satisfying about knowing just how much of a deal refilling is. The numbers all seem solid, and even if they're only in the ballpark I'm happy, so thanks for that.

I was under the impression that the 3eBK cart was only used for text and plain paper printing, not for photos (specifically photo paper). Something about the pigment based ink looking dull. But reading back it nothing was said about pigment and the issue was a BCI-6 vs a BCI-e.... still, if anyone would like to clarify how an i560 (4-color) uses the 3eBK, that would be super.

Do you think 8oz per color is overkill for the average person? I was basing my purchase on 1) the approximate cost of buying a full set of OEM cartridges and 2) dreams of a printing spree, care-free and economical. But of course, I have no idea how much ink such printing abandon would consume. Photos and iron-on transfers and the like. Things that used to be cheaper coming from anywhere but my printer. I did think about things like printer life and new models... but again, it's hard to say. I'm sure some of you could use up 8oz in a week, I'm aiming for a couple years (Never buy ink again? Yes please!)

Dave from Hobbicolors has recommended I go with two sets of blanks for that amount of ink. I like the idea that I wouldn't have to clean them, so two is it.

I think Hobbicolors has a competitive price for smaller quantities combined with fantastic customer service and the screw-equipped carts. Also I think I've read several times here that MIS will sometimes clog a print head and is best when mixed... maybe that was a different printer model, but I figure, why bother? It was also too hard to get an accurate shipping estimate for Canada; unacceptable when budgeting a purchase.

 

[neal]

Hello Osage,

Over all, print volume/results will vary- depending upon the area and darkness of colors per page. For printing of only simple text (about 5% cover area), I have been able to print about 200 copies per refill (example: about 12 ml of black BCI-6 per catridge). In many cases, I have small photos (in brochures) and overall I printed 20,000 such pages in last two years and used about 200 OZ ink. Atleast 20% ink mus have been wasted too, while clenaing or deep cleaning - when I cleaned pads, I was amazed to see a a lot of ink in those pads. If you speak with Joe at alotofthings.com, and refer to him about me, he may give you the same price ($12 for 16 OZ bottles if purchased 96 OZ at at a time).

Neil Chawla

 

[Nifty]

rainy,

Welcome to the forum! Obviously you can see we've got a great set of really smart and friendly people here!!!

Regarding pigment / dye based usage in these printers, I think this may help a little:
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/difference-canon-bci-3-bci-6.php

I've actually got about 4 refurbished i560 printers straight from Canon (still in the boxes) that I just can't find myself capable of parting with... great little printers.

 

[Osage]

To Neil,

Who informs me that if beg Joe I may be able to get ink in 16 oz. bottles at a $96./ US gallon rate.--which leaves my Canon estimated OEM charge at $4323.43 for a US gallon OEM BCI-6 ink unchanged when bought in BCI-6 OEM cartridges. So now your estimated saving factor goes from a mere 33.44x to a 45.036x. And here I thought your savings were just a mere bunch. Guess I better promote you to at least saving a wad.

What I find especially sobering is that we are talking the set of printers using the Canon BCI-3&6 cartridges. Argueably the most economical inkjet printers in world history when comparing OEM cartridge ink consumable costs to OEM cartridge ink consumable costs. Although I have not run any numbers----I sure postulate some Lexmark and HP printers would cost out well over charging a user $8000 or better per gallon of OEM ink----and users of those printers would get by refilling well over the mere 45x savings you enjoy. ------sure would like to see some cost posts on that from some of those users.