Canon MP540 - Strange magenta inkflow problem

[PeterBJ]

I have lent a niece a Canon MP540, for which I supply refilled PGI-520/CLI-521 cartridges. The printhead is new and the printer seems to be in perfect working order. The young lady is a student and needs a reliable printer for printing reports. Scanning and photocopying capability is also a must.

The day before a report was due, a print job of 200+ plain paper pages + a few A4 photos, I got a call and was told the printer had started printing strange green pictures instead of B/W. This is how a B/W picture looked. click to enlarge:

From the panel on the printer I did a printhead cleaning and a nozzle test. After the cleaning, the nozzle test was perfect. The cartridges were about 50% full so I changed them to a refilled set and left one more set of refilled cartridges and showed how to change a cartridge. The printer printed the 200+ page job without problems plus a similar printjob for a friend who owned no printer, without any problems. It was only necessary to change one PGI-520 cartridge. The printer is still performing well.

I think the magenta cartridge has/had an inkflow problem. The strange thing is that half of the ink was used before the problem appeared. To reproduce the error I placed the set of cartridges I had removed in a Pixma 3600, which uses the same cartridges and printhead. I printed a lot of B/W pictures on both plain paper and photo paper, but the error had gone, the cartridges worked flawlessly in the Pixma 3600.

The cartridges were virgin empties I had flushed with demineralized water using my Freedom refill adapter and dried using ghwellsjr's paper towel method. They were refilled using IS ink from Octoinkjet UK. The refill method was the German method using SquEasyFill bottles and sharp 21g 2" needles. The refill hole was sealed with a piece of alumin(i)um tape. There was no sign of overfilling, no ink in the vent area and no dripping.

I think the problem is similar to this: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5909 , but I cannot figure out what is/was going on. Any ideas?

 

[stratman]

Excellent description and detail of the issue.

To clarify -- the issue occurred after 200+ plain paper print job? Was this the last A4 photo printed, meaning all the other photos printed OK?

Sounds and looks like ink starvation. The streaking and loss of color to make Black in the B&W image could be caused by a non-compliant sponge, separation of sponges, or air-lock from blocked vent. It could be an issue of improper seal between the cartridge and the print head, though i doubt this.

If the image was the last thing to be printed then a non-compliant sponge would be my first guess. After 200+ pages printed, the sponge could not continue to supply the required (increased) amount of ink needed to the print head. Maybe it is a limitation in the printer's capacity to print so much at one time, but more likely the problem was due to the cartridge(s).

While the cartridges have performed OK in a different printer, it sounds like you have not "stressed" them to the same extent as your niece, so the cartridges appear OK on smaller print jobs.

You might consider flushing the cartridges again and try Pharmacist's sponge reconditioning solution:

-3 % propylene glycol (or 2 % glycerin)
-20 % isopropyl alcohol
-distilled water up to 100 %

Conditioning: after flushing the sponge has difficulty to absorb the ink well and tends to be become a bit hydrofobic (water repellent). By completely immerge and drenching the sponge material with this solution and then blowing as much solution as possible the sponge is revived again. The pigment BCI-3eBK/PGI-5Bk is the most difficult one and using this conditioning solution improves the absorption degree of your favourite refill pigment ink.

 

[PeterBJ]

stratman wrote:
To clarify -- the issue occurred after 200+ plain paper print job?

No, I was called before the big print job. The printer had been used for for printing some A4 photos and a few plain paper pages, when the problem suddenly started. The picture is from the first page of the report. My niece was in a bit of panic as this exam report was due next day, so she asked me to please repair the printer or lend her another one.

After I changed the cartridges the printer did not one but two large print jobs without problems and is still performing well.

The strange thing is that the suspect set of cartridges performs well in another printer. Maybe my test has not stressed them enough? I have now put a sticker with a "?" on the suspect magenta cartridge, so my niece will not get that cartridge again.

Your idea of stressed cartridges sounds plausible to me. Printing photos demands much more ink than printing Word documents on plain paper. I think these printers are intended for light home use only, not for a heavy duty cycle.

Maybe it is not clear from the expression "Virgin empties" but the cartridges are Canon OEM, and I think nothing is wrong with the ink, as I use the same magenta ink with Pixmas 4200 and 5200 without problems.

I will try flushing and reconditioning the magenta cartridge before refill when it is empty and keep it under observation.

 

[The Hat]

PeterBJ
I will try flushing and reconditioning the magenta cartridge before refill when it is empty and keep it under observation.

I had the very same problem on two of my printers while running a couple of hundred sheets through each printer.
It happened on a magenta cart with one printer and yellow on the other within minutes of each other after about 80 sheets.

I stopped changed out the offending cartridges and it never happened again on either printer,
I was printing an A5 solid fire red box at the time.

I purged each cartridge with tap water till clean and then added one ml of alcohol to each then blow out the excess water
and dried them both using ghwellsjr tissue method on the outlet.

The two cartridges have being used numerous of times since without any reappearance
of the original starvation problem, they were both OEM..

 

[PeterBJ]

Thanks for the info. It seems that you can indeed overload a cartridge with a big print job.

I wonder if a pause to allow the cartridge to add more ink to the sponges will make the problem go away? That could explain why I got a perfect nozzle check after a printhead cleaning and why the cartridges seemed OK after I got home with them and tested them in the Pixma 3600. It would have been better for troubleshooting if I had also done a nozzle check before printhead cleaning, but the most important thing was to get the printer working again.

If I can reproduce the error, I will try if a resting pause for the cartridge will make the problem go away.

I have seen the opinion that flushing the cartridges with water may create more problems than it solves, it should be unnecessary if the cartridges are virgin empties that have had the outlet sealed and the outlet still wet with ink. Flushing and conditioning could be done by dripping a few millilitres of ink on the outlet sponge and and extracting it or blowing it out. Sadly I don't remember who posted that idea, and I didn't bookmark it.

I wonder if this problem and not the pigment ink is the reason for the aluminium/mylar bags in the PGI-9 and 29 cartridges for Canons High-End printers instead of sponges? For the more mundane Canon printers sponges are used for the pigment black cartridges, so sponges should work with pigment inks? Maybe the most important difference between the professional models and the home use models is high reliability and the ability to deal with large print jobs for the professional models?

 

[stratman]

Maybe it is not clear from the expression "Virgin empties" but the cartridges are Canon OEM, and I think nothing is wrong with the ink, as I use the same magenta ink with Pixmas 4200 and 5200 without problems.

"Virgin cartridge" is taken to mean a new cartridge once used but never refilled on this forum. Manufacturer is not part of the definition, but I assumed you were discussing OEM Canon cartridges.

 

[stratman]

I wonder if a pause to allow the cartridge to add more ink to the sponges will make the problem go away?

Yes, that is implied in your situation. However, you want to correct the issue if possible so that the problem doesn't reoccur in the future with other cartridges.

If I can reproduce the error, I will try if a resting pause for the cartridge will make the problem go away.

This would be the temporary fix for your niece before she calls you if the issue occurs again.

I have seen the opinion that flushing the cartridges with water may create more problems than it solves,

Very rarely mentioned on the forum as actually causing a problem. Hard water would be the culprit here. A final flush with a few cc's of distilled or deionized water will hopefully prevent the problem.

it should be unnecessary if the cartridges are virgin empties that have had the outlet sealed and the outlet still wet with ink.

We would think that. I purposefully did not go into various scenarios or asking detailed questions about the cartridges. I did, however, list the main possible causes of your issue. Without knowing the precise mechanism for ink starvation, flushing and/or properly seating the sponges should result in a "fix" for you. At least I belive these to be the odds on favorite fixes.

Flushing and conditioning could be done by dripping a few millilitres of ink on the outlet sponge and and extracting it or blowing it out. Sadly I don't remember who posted that idea, and I didn't bookmark it.

Since you are using the Durchstich method, you can moisten both the ink exit port sponge and the sponge above it in the sponged chamber by squirting a small amount of ink as you withdraw the needle. Additionally, it has been hypothesized that an air-lock can be formed in the tunnel that the needle makes during the Durchstich refilling process. This air-channel breaks the flow of ink from the spongeless side and results in ink starvation. While I have cartridges with this air channel that work fine, I did experience ink starvation once that may have been due to the air-lock. A flushing resolved the problem (whatever it was).

This fix you write about above is for when the sponge is dry and you need to kick start flow. It also helps if ONLY dried ink - DYE-based, water solvent ink in particular - is sludged or caked onto the sponge. For pigment ink and biologicals gumming up the sponge, a proper flush may be required to return proper function. Then there is the consideration of a too dried out sponge that may need reconditioning per Pharmacist's recipe.

 

[websnail]

Couple of things that can help...

1. Re-introduce the ink path from the spongeless to the sponged area by reinserting the needle as if refilling and then dribble ink out of the needle as you withdraw it through the sponge (stop just before the needle is removed from the cartridge obviously).

2. Turn the printer upside down and dribble some extra ink (not tons!) into the exit port sponge.


The first technique can help re-establish a "bridge" between the sponge and spongeless compartments while the latter just re-primes the exit sponge with ink instead of air.

 

[stratman]

2. Turn the printer upside down and dribble some extra ink (not tons!) into the exit port sponge.

Still drunk from the Jubilee?

 

[Emulator]

Interesting to read all your views on aspects I have been thinking over of late.

I am in a hard water area.

Do you think there is much deposit of minerals during flushing itself, which can be over a period of, say, 15 minutes, with a relatively large volume of water? Hot or cold, I remember your comments Peter regarding the effect of hot water on synthetics.

Or from residual dampness during drying of the cartridge?

Is conditioning of the total foam mass or just the exit pad significant?

Has anyone really measured the difference that conditioning makes?

I am a little doubtful that a final rinse with distilled or de-ionised water would remove minerals already in the foam.

Regards

Ian