Ultra K / Ultra black pigment ink from Precision Colors

[mikling]

First this place sounds like a game of politics. I was asked if it smeared and I did some quick testing and found that it did on Colorlok as compared to non colorlok. Now I was honest about it and based on my observations I quickly concluded that it was similar to having a coating like a microporous coating. That is where my mistake was it was not a microporous coating. It was a coating that would cause the same effect to occur.

If the accusers would have taken the time to read the link I provided and"understood" then they would understand. So that is where I was wrong. Colorlok attempts to leave the pigments at and near the surface. In Hp's own words. The reason when you think about HP's statement they qualify AT AND NEAR is likely because some pigment particles are in fact exposed to be AT and some pigment particles are NEAR. Now that the tests were done and the observations digested, we now know some key differences between 1128 and other pigment inks like 1020. I initially said that I don't know. I now know, you now know and it is there for the world to know.

How many ink vendors could tell you that? By doing what I do, I can make mistakes ( That is the risk.) but the observation is not wrong and conclusion is still NOT WRONG with respect to highgliters. If pigment particles are left AT the surface it is more likely to be subject to ruboff both physically and when dissolved by a highliter.

I take a progressive actions when I can do so for users.. I am not a multimillion dollar enterprise with a PR department and an advertising budget. I am my own R&D and testing.

When I make a mistake, and my mistake again was that it is NOT an resin coating but an salt based coating that attempts to leave the pigments at the surface. Read it again.

This place had been a place to help others. I tried to help when someone asked if it woulfd fix a highliter issue on colorlok papers. I said it would not after testing. But in the end I think that 1128 will fix the problem with Colorlok. This aspect is the stuff we should focus on, not trying to get someone to shoot their foot off.

In the end nche11, you will be seen as the villain here not me. Your desire to see someone hurt themself is not good.

I will shoot myself in the foot even further. There is likely a correlation between pigment size and darkness and the correlation is a positive one. This would have a bearing on depth of penetration or as HP calls it shrikethrough. There is also a spec on colorlok for a specfied surface smoothness. This will also have a bearing. This also has an effect on the required minimum particle size as well. The thinkers will understand why.

 

[nche11]

Does the packaging for the Xerox paper say that it is only treated on one side? And does the packaging let you know which side to print on? How do you test it to see which side is treated?

No. You just brought up a good question. The plastic wrap has the logo on it but it says nothing that it is single sided. I can tell if I get the correct side only by printing something on it then look at how sharp the text is. There is a distinct difference between the two sides. I know this is strange. You will see what I mean if you use it yourself.

I will use this paper whenever I need better text and color print on plain paper. If you need to apply highlighter over the text you will need to apply it lightly and never apply it multiple times or it will smudge. But it is not that bad honestly. On regular plain paper the text will smudge too if the highlighter is applied back and forth.

 

[nche11]

First this place sounds like a game of politics.

Man, is it so hard to admit mistake? When I read you initial response about Colorlok paper I felt that you never used it but trying to act like an expert. Sorry, this is my opinion of course. I just feel you need to be told. Get to the end of the disgraceful debate and move forward. I would really like to know more about the Colorlok paper from the user's experience point of view. I personally don't think it is just a hype. It is just not perfect. Nothing is perfect in the real world. This includes you and myself.

 

[mikling]

Look at #20. The words are obvious. I was wrong about colorlok initially.
Your thread was much later than that. Someone is out to get someone. That is not good.
The words chosen in your message is very telling. The desired result is more so.

 

[The Hat]

Stumped2
One easy way to cure your problem would be to purge your pigment cartridge and fill it with dye ink.
Then using Colorlok paper shouldnt be a problem anymore it might even be a +..

 

[nche11]

I just take a close look at the wrap of my realm of the Xerox Colorlok paper. It does have a line of fine print at the edge that says print on this side and it shows an arrow pointing to the bottom. That is the correct side that yields sharper and darker text for me. Now I don't ever have to guess which side is which any more.

Colorlok may be just an old technology with a new badge. I have a half box of Pinnacle brand 25% 91 brightness cotton bond laser/typing paper bought from Costco about 10 years ago. It yields text just like the Xerox paper in that the black is deeper and sharper. It is distinctly better than regular copy plain paper. I also have a few realms of private label paper realms that is every bit as good probably better than the Xerox paper. I also have a stack of paper probably 200 sheets remaining that has HP letter head on the top. I remember getting the paper from a computer surplos store for $1 something like that. This paper may already have Colorlok on it that it yields excellent text quality too.

Before the Xerox paper was available from Costco I actually looked for paper that works like the Pinnacle paper but without costing an arm ans a leg. I was unable to find any. They were probably out there but I simply could not find any from computer stores or Staples. Wen I found Xerox paper it almost met all my need of better printing quality without having to use fancy and expensive paper. I say almost because it is only single sided. I need to print thic documents from time to time so I need to print on both sides. The Xerox paper does serve me well. The other side does not look bad at all. It is just not as good as the Colorlok side.

Hat, you do know that by changing to dye ink it will only smudge the hell out of you by the highlighter, don't you?

 

[The Hat]

nche11 Hat, you do know that by changing to dye ink it will only smudge the hell
out of you by the highlighter, don't you?

Stumped2 only wants to stop the black ink offsetting on to the back of his sheets after there folded, thats all..

 

[ghwellsjr]

Stumped2
One easy way to cure your problem would be to purge your pigment cartridge and fill it with dye ink.
Then using Colorlok paper shouldnt be a problem anymore it might even be a +..

This might just be the best idea yet in the history of inkjet printing. Not just from the standpoint of eliminating smudging, but also eliminating any clogging of the waste ink pads which I have had so many problems with.

I did a test with my HP Bright White Inkjet plain paper with ColorLok and got excellent results. I didn't put any dye black ink in my wide cartridge, I merely told the printer I was printing on matte paper which causes it to use the dye black ink instead of the pigment black ink. I printed a page of black text and a page off the internet with color pictures and black text. I let them dry for a couple hours. Then I took a couple highlighter pens to both pages. Absolutely no smearing no matter how hard I tried. Then I dribbled some water across the pages, no running of the ink, but wherever I had previously highlighted text, it got kind of fuzzy. No big deal, really.

Telling the printer you are printing on matte paper is what I told Stumped2 to do as a possible way to solve his problem:

ColorLok is a treatment for plain paper that helps keep dye ink from running when it gets wet. But it makes things worse for pigment ink. I had previously discovered this problem when using a highlighter on pigment ink printed on ColorLok paper but this is the first time I've heard of your problem.

If you have any plain paper that does not have the ColorLok treatment, see if that will solve your problem.

Or you might try telling your printer that the paper is matte photo paper in which case it will use the dye black ink instead of the pigment black ink but I don't know if that will have any other adverse effects.

I noticed that ColorLok is showing up on a lot of plain papers. I guess maybe they should call it ColorLok/BlackUnlok.

I don't think Stumped2 tried my idea of telling the printer he was printing on matte paper but maybe he should now and let us know how if it works.

 

[nche11]

I have doubt about your suggestion. By setting to Matte paper the printer will print the black text with CLI-221bk cartridge. It will be very slow like a dog. The black ink will be dye black ink. This really defeats the purpose of having a large PGI-220bk with black pigment ink in it. Printing black text with dye black ink will not yield sharp text especially if the text is in small font.

In addition, dye black ink will not withstand the attack of humidity. Put a print under a faucet to wash it you will see dye ink washing off within seconds. Washing a print printed with black pigment ink (it has to be dried first) the ink will not smear. You can dry the water afterwards and you will find the black text remain intact. This includes the Xerox Colorlok paperh. I tested this many times. The ink used is Hobbicolors black pigment ink. I don't think it is the ink that does it. As long as it is 100% black pigment ink it is supposed to be able to withstand the wash of water.

Smudging by highlighters is a different issue. To highlight text you scrub over the text. This is not Stumped2's issue so let's take this variable out of the equation for now and address his problem for the moment.

I have a serious doubt that HP bright white inkjet paper printed with dye black ink (text) will not smear when dribbling water over the text. Not I don't believe you. The dye ink is known to wash off regardless what plain paper it is. A black pigment ink stands a better chance of holding up the ink.

Stumped2's problem is very strange. According to him different paper (Colorlok or not) used got slightly different result but the problem still exists. The ink was OEM pigment ink. I believe I have had a lot of text print stacked for years. I have never seen ink transferring from one sheet to another. By folding his print the paper is folded and stacked up. I will take a dried sheet of text print to wash it. Then I will fold it up and see if the ink will transfer from one surface to another. I have a feeling it will not. I will report back in a couple of hours.

 

[nche11]

OK, I've got some result. Here is what I did to test. I had two prints. One was a regular plain paper that I must have printed a few days ago laying around. The other is a new sheet of the Xerox Colorlok paper that I printed some text on it a little while ago.

I washed the first print under a faucet for about 5 seconds and made sure it was completely wet. The ink did not run. Not what I can detect. I rubbed a small section of the text with my finger. Nothing smudged. I did not rub hard. Just a tiny touch and drag. No smudge. I let the print to dry a little for about 3 minutes. The paper was still wet and soft but the surface looked dry. I folded up like I was going to mail it.

I did the same thing on the 2nd sheet. Agin the ink did not run. Before I did this I used a magnifier to make sure I printed it on the right COlorlok surface. I rubbed a small section of the text with my finger gently. No smudging. The ink held up extremely well in fact. I let the sheet to dry for only a minute. The surface looked dry in less than 1 minute, much faster than the other sheet. I don't know if the Colorlok treatment is the reason for this. I folded the sheet like the first. I stacked the two together and put them under my wrist pad in front of my computer keyboard for a few minutes. I figured if the ink will transfer from one surface to another it would do it when the paper was still wet.

When I checked the print a few minutes later I found a tiny trace of shadow on the first sheet. It was very tiny but I could tell ink was transferred over. I could see the shape of some text. I am sure it happened. When I checked at the 2nd sheet. Surprise. There was not a trace of ink transfer. Not a tiny bit I could detect. No smearing, no smudging and no running.

I know, this test did not resemble the condition of Stumped2's. But it was a severe test for the paper and the ink. The pigment ink I am using is Hobbicolors PMT-BK. But I believe any good pigment ink will probably not result differently. Stumped2 used OEM pigment ink. The ink should be a first class ink that is very unlikely the cause of his problem. Before testing I actually anticipated that the Xerox Colorlok paper might perform poorly. I was surprised. It actually did better in my opinion.

This test can be done by anyone with his own ink. I welcome you to test it like I did and compare the result. This test did not generate anything useful for Stumped2. Sorry about that.