Top filling mod for 3800 & 3880 refillable carts.

mikling

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There is only one way in, so the exit must be the same......unless printers deal in the fourth dimension....ala Twilight Zone...just kidding.

The pressures we are dealing with are small and so is the volume, you would not be able to hear any air release.

Since I supplied you with these carts I will tell you that there are accumulator/damper chambers and labyrinths for the air intake path. Those rectangular empty parts in the middle are actually functional. they are not fillers. To a degree, these will provide some protection but they are not there for that reason. The last save your butt feature is that the exit position of the air intake is at the top corner but is next to your proposed refill position. Now if the carts did not have both these save your butt features, then you could have a mess on your hands one day as time went along. These features are not failsafe but "good enough" to use within the context of useable refillables.

I cannot comment on other vendors products. It would be wrong of me. It is best that they be contacted to explain the engineering behind their products.

My safe recommendation is to refill these outside of the printer and replace the yellow air intake cap before doing so. You can always do otherwise but be aware of the reasoning of what you need to avoid when doing so. Recently I had a customer who had his labyrinth clog with dried up ink over the years....that channel would not print...he thought he had a clogged printhead ...(similar to a Canon cart with the air intake clogged). ....until he changed the cartridge. So getting ink into that small diameter labyrinth path is not a good thing at all. The yellow plug prevents that as best as practically possible and it should only be removed just before reinserting into the printer.

I think this discussion will present some light on the engineering differences between an OEM product and an aftermarket refillable product. For Epson, foolproof engineering is high on the priority....the bag will never fail and the pump system is engineered very simply and never expects to see incoming ink. In the aftermarket, the onus is on refillable, inexpensive and foolproof comes thereafter.
 

mikling

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The other thing that I had also realized now is that you've drilled through a double wall. Now you're somewhat fortunate to have resealed properly and the plug fitted back nicely. Generally double walls are there for a reason, like on many OEM carts, they're trying to prevent from from properly resealing the hole. In this refillable, I'm thinking that the double wall might in fact be to reduce the amount of plastic used while still retaining structural rigidity.

By filling from the side on the corner it is unlikely that you'd reach the top of the pressure path exit. Now if you'd been able to actually refill from the top as you'd really desired, then this process would be a distinct no no.

We have however, forgotten one thing. The crossectional area horizontally is larger than the crossectional area vertically. That means if you refill short of the very top by 1/8" as your proposed refill location will possibly allow, that might be equivalent of refilling short of the top by 2/8" vertically. So refilling from the top will come up short in the amount of ink that you could put in.

Theoretically there exists a way to extend the cartridge out using the two holes you've created. That way more convenient refilling is possible. Get an external bottle that is sealable. Have two tubes that connects to the carts. One tube leads to the area above the ink in the external tank....to the hole you've made. The other tube is a dip tube that goes towards the bottom of the column of ink and this connects to the refill hole.

How large a bottle you can get away with will be dependent on what the volume displacement the pump on the printer was designed for...the pressure system. If you used a large bottle, as the bottle emptied, since you now have more air volume that needs to be compressed, the pump might be unable to supplythe required amt. thus the pressure level might not be reached and this will trigger an error code. If you refill the bottle, the code should go away as the pump can now supply the air needed. The external bottle will need to be adjusted and filled so that it's relative max height of its ink column is the same as that on the cartridge in the printer and never higher. Now you've made yourself a set of external tanks. Again, the largest size that you can go out externally will be dependent on the pump and its displacement on the printer and you can only tell that when the error code kicks in that detects a leak in the system because of its inability to generate the pressure. The above is in theory.

Happy modding.
 

jtoolman

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Mike last night I was tinkering some more after taking everything you suggested under consideration. I realized as you pointed out, that the location is right over the pressure escapes? I moved the hole over to the left side of the cart, and drilled a new hole that penetrates the outer left side removable cart cover and enters the ink compartment safely. After care examination I came to the conclusion that that location is pretty much safe.

Did pressurizing and depressurizing tests with water in the water in the cart and everything seems fine.

As you can see from the photos, the tabbed plug would be a better choice as it really seems to create a perfect seal.

So I have two refill scenarios I can use.

1: Open the ink lid.
Pop the cart lever to temporarily disconnect cart from ink system. Cart is still inserted. Internal cart ressure is dissipated.
Remove fill plug and top off to 90% capacity ( I would never fill to the top anyway )
Reinsert plug.
Push cart back in.
Repeat process to all other carts.
Close ink lid. Carts will reset to full.

2: Open the ink lid.
Turn off printer power.
Leave carts connected.
Remove fill plug.
Top off as needed.
Reinsert plug.
Close ink lid.
Power printer on.
Carts will be reset to full.

Does OFF mean NO INK compartment pressure?

I have a full machine shop so I had precisely locate and drill holes on a full set of carts with 100% repeatability.


8056_mod_3800_refill_cart.jpg

8056_mod_3800_refill_cart_b_.jpg
 

mikling

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What you can do to improve the seal of the plug is to remove the outer shell and open a bit the hole through which the plug goes. This way, any misalignment from the outer shell which does not need to seal, will not interfere/distort the plug from sealing on the inner shell.

But exactly what does the mod get you though. Don't you end up with an underfilled cart whose capacity is lower than stock under the conditions of a safe refill? Think through the crossectional area issue on one side versus another.
 

jtoolman

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So you are saying that it is safe to fill these all the way to the top? As when refilling using the normal front edge refilling hole?
I don't think having 10% less ink ( 70ml rather than the rated 80ml ) would be a problem as I top off well bnefore any of the carts ever get close to 1/4 empty.
Not a big deal for me.
The big deal is not having to remove the cart over and over.
The the hole I just made through the left side cover and through the cart body aligns pretty perfectly as I am looking at it.
Anyway this is all an exercise in possibilities to improve on these commonly available carts.
 

mikling

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It is safe in the same sense that millions will have a drink before driving home, some make it, some don't. Some take out others with them. The fact that the odds are with you doesn't mean it's safe. I say be cautious and know what you are doing and be aware of the risks involved. Murphy's law has never been disproved. I already outlined why a problem did not surface and that is because your refill location only does not allow a fill to the top. If it did as you keep desiring ......
 

irvweiner

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Gents, I think I'm observing the effects of a low ink level and lots of air in the cart. At this point when printing a large pix, 13x19 or more I'm seeing some banding start. If, several minutes later I print a smaller pix, 6x9, no banding. Should I print another large pix 5,10 or 20 mins later the banding will start to reappear part way thru the print. My take on all this simple, the cart is not empty but the large air volume is not being pressurized properly thus reducing proper ink delivery under a sustained heavier demand. Refilling the cart to a higher level eliminated the problem. Re-priming was not needed.

Just a heads-up alert, irv weiner
 

pharmacist

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The problem with these cartridges is the direct contact between the pressurized air and the ink, which is pushed out the cartridge. When you pull out the cartridge, the pressure is immediately gone and back to normal. The I-refill system from Inkrepublic.com uses a special air (filter) valve attached to the pressure inlet valve and even if you take the cartridge from the printer after a shutdown, the pressure inside the cartridge is maintained for many minutes before it gradually drops. I think this is deliberately designed to maintain a steady pressure and thus continously steady ink flow towards the printhead, even if ink level has drop significantly. This prevents the problem of banding, like Irvweiner has been experiencing, because of lack of pressure.

The manual warns for a few minutes before unscrew the lid to refill the cartridge and I even then, the air is sizzling out from the refill hole when the lid is gradually unscrewed. I now use a piece of paper towel wrapped around the screw, to prevent ink droplets been sprayed all over the place. There is still alot of pressure inside, even during a few minutes after the shutdown.

Nevertheless there is a minimum level depicted on the cartridge: the reason is not the pressure, but the ink travelling upwards onto the slope towards the ink outlet valve and if the ink drops too much, air will be pushed into the printer, so you will need a minimum amount of ink in the cartridge to cope with this problem.
 

jtoolman

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irvweiner, how low were your carts when you experienced the banding?

I've making very sure to top off before 50% level are reached.

Mikling I've decided to not to do the top fill mod. I can't guarantee that I can 100% seal the new hole. So it's back to normal fills through the front hole.
 
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