pixma ip4300 ink

[hpnetserver]

Mikling, I really do not agree with the way you think how a Canon cartridge works. Ink in the sponge is always consumed first until air entering from the vent at the top reaches the bottom between the two tanks. The air then gets into the reserve tank to exchange for ink in the reserve tank. This ink is then sucked into the sponge and replenishes it. This air and ink exchange process continues until all the ink in the reserve tank is used up and the printer detects that it is empty. At the moment this air and ink exchange begins, the sponge is already almost empty except near the bottom above the ink exit hole.

 

[hpnetserver]

Regardless how you refill, as long as the sponge is full and the reseve tank is full too, the old and new ink will eventually mix evenly aross the sponge and the reserve tank as well. This is physics. The process is called diffusion. It may take a while, may be hours, but the diffusion process will eventually make the old and new ink mix evenly across every where in the cartridge. The diffusion can be very fast for gas. That's why when one farts everyone smells it in seconds. It becomes much slower in liguid but it exists and will not stop until every part in the cartridge is even. It will be very slow or non-exist in solid objects, however. In solid objects mobility of molecules is zero.

 

[mikling]

Yes, my idea is counter to what many people haven't given serious thought to. You MUST remember that the Canon cartridge design is meant to be a DISPOSABLE, one time design with no regards to flushing action of the sponge.
Now with regard to the sponge side being used first, that is not correct. The sponge is there to control the flow by balancing the forces of wicking up vs gravity forcing the weight of the ink down. Please give a good read of Mick Carlotta's (Ex HP ink cartridge engineer) article on Sponges in Cartridges at the Inkprocess site. Intuitively how can new ink jump over to the top to start coming down when it is fed at the bottom? The ink in the sponge at the top stays there to keep the ink from the reservoir from dripping out. As the reservoir is used up, the ink in the sponge also drops a bit and the vent hole is there to allow this drop. You rarely get feed problems due to goop on the cartridge when it is just refilled to the brim. The old ink causes a situation similar to a blocked vent hole.
Dilution now.
The sponge impedes the dilution my friend. The sponge has varying characteristics and Brownian Motion which is a part of diffusion is severely restricted by the network of pores within the sponge. Furthermore, when I test a compatible with a genuine OEM, you distinctly see that the Canon sponge actually allows more of the ink in the sponge to be diffused than the compatible.
Now going back to dilution & diffusion. The diffusion potential is GREATEST when I used water because the concentrations between the ink and water is greatest. When the concentration of old ink and new ink is compared you get less of a gradient in concentrations.
Another thing to note is that as the diffusion only takes place at the BOUNDARY where the two mixtures meet. The mixture at the top cannot magically jump to the front of the line so it has to take place at the curved diagonal color difference. Now notice what happens as it does dilute a bit. That line SHRINKS toward the ink reservoir opening at the bottom. Just when the concentrations are mixing and the gradient is getting smaller, the boundary to do further mixing is getting smaller. Guess what? you get to a point where no further mixing occurs. You see an equlibrium situation developing?
In all of this, the ink at the top NEVER makes it to the bottom and the new ink never totally makes it to the top for the proper feed action of the sponge. With each successive refill, the older ink gets "goopier" eventually causing an action that causes too much wicking and thus stopping proper ink feed. Still don't believe me? take a sponge at home, wet it and squeeze it. Stand it up, inject some ink at the bottom and tell me when the complete sponge is a uniform color. Only if is DRY will the wicking be uniform. That is why purging also works but the goal is to eliminate the need to do this or extend the period before this is necessary. This is the same problem people have when they refill HP cartridges numerous times from the bottom up. Flushing with a centrifuge fixes the problem there.
Canon doesn't care about this because they always maintain that their cartridge is a one time use and if used once, there is no problem.

 

[pebe]

I've tried the Inkprocess site you mentioned and only found Mick Carlotta's statements knocking the opposition. I found nothing of the article on Sponges in Cartridges that you mention.

How do I access them?

 

[hpnetserver]

Mikling, thank you for your effort in your lengthy post. But I beg your permission for a different opinion about how the cartridge works. Canon's cartridge is not meant to be used only once. The fact is it does work if refilled. The fact is many people have refilled it and have repeatedly filled it satisfactorily. In fact there is no evidence whatsoever indicating the OEM cartridge is designed to be used only once.

The ink in the sponge is consumed before any ink in the reserve tank is. If you watch closely how an OEM or a compatible cartridge works you will confirm that the reserve tank remains full for a while and until many pages are printed, then the reserve tank begins to lower its ink level and loses it fairly fast. This says ink is consumed out of the sponge first.

It is true that the sponge holds the ink in it with capillarity so that it does not pour down out of the ink exit hole. But remember there is a vent at the top of the sponge. When the print head below the ink exit hole begins to suck ink by the nozzles that are ejecting ink downward the ink in the sponge has to give up its grab of ink first because vacuum in the reserve tank is much greater than the capillary power of the sponge in keeping the ink. This is really physics. The vacuum at the top of the reserve tank won't let go any ink unless something gets into the tank to exchange for ink. It won't be ink to exchange for ink. Only when air gets into the reserve tank which reduces the vacuum in it therefore equal volume of ink is released from where the air comes into the reserve tank. Air will not come to exchange until the ink in the sponge is consumed to a point that allows air to reach the bottom between the two tanks.

Have you seen water feeding bottles in chicken farms? They work just like the Canon reserve tank. Canon could not claim for a patent for this design because it has existed for hundreds possibly thousands of years. But Canon did have a patent in the sponge design which compatible cheapies do not use.

 

[mikling]

If your theory is correct and all the ink in the sponge does get used up then why is the purging process necessary at all? In that situation all the ink in the sponge is replaced by new ink when the cartridge is refilled. What causes the buildup? I am seeking and found a way that pretty much eliminates this "goop" buildup that causes so many users problems after refilling a number of times.

With regards to Mick Carlotta, You need to register to view his very informatice articles. Yes, he is a critic of the ink cartridge industry and for good reason. He calls it as he sees it and explains what is correct and what is not.

I did say that it is Canon's opinion that their cartridges are one time use and all their manuals clearly toe this line. I did not say that users could not refill. I never said that Canon cartridges can only be used once. There is nothing wrong with the design for one time use but it is not suitable for continued refilling without maintenance like non dedicated printing consumers want. Thus my pursuit for a method that does not require purging. Stay on course. The effort is to eliminate purging and not accept that purging is a necessity.

Yes, my father in law is a poultry farmer. My wife knows more about chickens than you would believe. I have chased chickens in the pens when I was younger as well.

 

[ghwellsjr]

Refilling properly will redistribute the old ink and position it to be mixed and consumed in the next "round" of refill. New ink is predominantly in the sponge now and the old ink is diluted with the new ink.
If you refill frequently with the old method of through the "refill" hole you get even less of the old/"colored" part being used at all. This exacerbates the problem.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/mikord/CanonMagenta-refillproperly.jpg
Here with a refill, (with water for illustrative purposes) through selected areas on the sponge side, we move the older ink so that it will be used. New ink in the sponge will determine the flow characteristics just as if it was new. At this point a little shake to mix the ink on the tank side is a good idea.

You talk of filling the cart 'properly' yet you have not described the 'proper' method. Should I assume you drill and fill through the top above the sponge, while leaving the reservoir vent open?

I still have the same question that pebe had. Do you drill hole(s) in the top over the sponge and refill from there? If so, how do you avoid messing up the serpentine grove that runs along the top of the sponge area? There is already a small hole near the center of the sponge area that connects to the end of the serpentine grove. Do you refill through that hole? If so, you would only have to recover the new hole through the label with tape.

Can you describe exactly what your refill process is? Pictures would be nice too.

 

[mikling]

I overlooked the request. Yes, you don't drill because if your drill catches the sponge it will make a mess. Take something like a "poultry" pin or a paper clip , heat it up and carefully make the holes. Where to put the holes? There are two choices. First, as Carlotta points out in another of his articles the serpentine is there to minimize air exchange with the outside air so that sponge drying is minimized. So if we damage the serpentine, that as described above is the result. Ink flow contrary to many beliefs is not controlled per se by this serpentine hole but it helps to minimize drying so don't damage it. So I recommend two holes as shown here. When finished tape the holes up or just seal it back with some tacky stuff like putty or blue tack.

Here's my suggestion where to clear.

Not rocket science.
If anyone doubts my "theory" try the experiment yourself. All you need to waste is your time and about 10cc of ink. Yes, watch the bubbles enter the reservoir as you soak out the ink with a kitchen paper towel or something absorbent but you won't see the top colors clear out a whole lot and at the very top possibly not at all. Second, take a compatible and see that it's a worse performer. So yes, the Canon OEM is clearly the best one to refill and when refilled as described, is even better!
Now the Epson spongeless OEM cartridges have none of these problems. It is a self clearing design, so each refill flushes the old. Just make sure you use pure ink but if you're reading this you own a Canon, but with the chips, you might want to reconsider next round.

 

[hpnetserver]

It is an issue of quality of ink and sponge. I use cartridges that came with the refill kits I bought from Hobbicolors. I have not had a need to purge my cartridges a single time yet. I can't say they will never need purging but I have not needed it yet. I have used both Hobbicolors WC6 ink and UW8 ink. This may be because I have not refilled my carts too many times. But some of my carts are almost 2 years old now. Frankly I do not understand why many on this forum talked about purging cartridges. I can understand the need to purge BCI-3eBK but not BCI-6 carts.

You don't need to believe the theory, actually, it's physics I was talking about. Just open the seal of any ink cartridge from the top of the reserve tank which has about 3/4 to 1/2 of the ink remaining in it. You will witness ink level in the reserve tank quickly lowers. You will witness ink being absorbed out of the reserve tank into the sponge. This has been reported many times in the forum. And this proves that there is little ink in the sponge while the reserve tank is still pretty full. This proves that ink is consumed first out of the sponge then from the reserve tank afterwards.

In my opinion if a cartridge needs frequent purging it is a problem. It is too risky to use it in your printer. I will not permit an ink cartridge that needs to be purged, even only once, to be in my ip8500. If all ink cartridges will eventually need purging I will toss them and buy new ones. I don't think it is just luck. I have not done a single purging for any of my Hobbicolors BCI-6 cartridges yet. I agree that purging gives the cartridge a new life. It's not a bad thing to do. But if it forces you to do it in order to restore its functionality I would toss it.

 

[ghwellsjr]

Mikling - After you have made the two holes, do you insert a syringe needle all the way to the bottom of the sponge through the hole near the air inlet and inject 1cc of ink, then insert the needle in the second hole, but just a little way into the sponge and inject another 1cc and finally put 8 cc near the top of the sponge through the first hole? Do you do this with the plug still in the normal fill hole over the tank? And then do you remove that plug and fill the tank?