One day color is spot on, the next it's not - why?

[tony22]

So I've been printing up photos to put into a relative's album for a holiday gift and was having a pretty good time of it. I'm using Canon PPP Semi Gloss and Canon inks with my Pro9000 Mark II. I even made a custom profile of the paper with my Datacolor Spyder3Print SR device. With just a bit of additional tweaking to this profile I found the output to be dead accurate and beautiful - better than the stock profile.

I did quite a few prints on Sunday, in the middle of which I had to replace the PC cart. The entire run looked great after giving it sufficient time to dry. Last night I ran a bunch more, but this time had to replace both the PM and Y carts. But even before that happened I noticed skin tones had a sickly green cast to them. I figured "oh, the ones from yesterday probably looked that way before they were fully dry", not remembering clearly. It turns out that was just wishful thinking. Even after drying for a couple of hours (after which I've found Canon ink on PPPSG paper doesn't shift much anymore) these prints still had that awful green cast. I made sure everything in both CS3 and the Canon driver was set up properly (it was) and that I was using the correct profile (I was). My monitor is calibrated with a Spyder3. I don't think it has anything to do with that, though, as the prints from Sunday still looked dead on accurate to the source when I opened them up in CS3 yesterday.

What could explain this?

 

[PeterBJ]

I don't know the Pro 9000 MkII printer, but my guess is that if magenta or photo magenta is missing, that would change the colours towards green. So maybe there is a clogging in the magenta or photo magenta or an ink flow issue ? Try doing a nozzle check, do all colours print OK ?

Peter

 

[tony22]

Tried that Peter. No problems with the initial check but I ran a clean cycle anyway. No difference. I even rebooted as Bob Petrushka over at dpreview says the Canon drivers sometimes get a little wonky under Win7 x64. No difference there either. It's almost like the printer decided to tease me by producing perfect output for only one printing session. Very frustrating.

Oh, in case anyone planned to ask I do not use Print Preview.

 

[PeterBJ]

Hi tony22

Did you get your printer working properly again? If not may I suggest a test ?

If the printer is OK, then it must be a software or driver problem. Here is a little test to help in troubleshooting, to tell if it is a printer hardware problem or a software problem:

If you have got another computer using a 32 bit OS then try installing the printer on that computer. If it still prints with a green cast, then something went wrong with your printer. If it prints normally using the Canon stock profile, then try printing using your custom profile. If it now prints perfectly, then something went wrong with your Win 7 x64 printer driver or profile.

Here is a test picture that could show something about what is wrong with what colour : http://photo-i.co.uk/Reviews/printers/images/Test.jpg Could you print that and scan and upload the result ?
Could you also scan and upload the nozzle test ?

What makes me think there might be a problem with magenta is that the problems started after the PM and Y cartridges ran out. Here is a post from Photofan1986 with a problem that looks similar to yours, check out the picture he links to:

OK... now things are going pretty bad for me sad
I bought a new black dye oem cart, and while printing a black sheet seems ok and dark black, when I print a grey chart, all the grey shades seem to have a greenish tint!
Do you think there is a problem with the printhead?

http://j.imagehost.org/0590/B_w.jpg

and :

Ok! After loooong testing, I came to the conclusion that the magenta ink tank has a problem. Not sure what's going on, but when I put the carts in my old printer (IP3000), everything works fine with the cyan and the yellow, but when I put the magenta tank in the printer, I get the same problem as on my MP540! That's cool, as is probably mean my printhead is ok, right?
Now, all my ink tanks are original Canon ones...but the magenta tank was kind of dried out. Is there something to do to re-establish the ink flow, or am I condemned buying a new magenta ink tank?
Thanks for your sound advice!

If the test shows it is a problem with the printhead, then check all threads about printhead cleaning and unclogging before doing anything. It is best to avoid taking the printhead out to clean it. Water on the electronics on the backside can kill not only the printhead, but the printer as well ! I ruined a Pixma 5000 by trying to print with a printhead, that was not completely dry after cleaning with hot tap water. There was a flash inside the printer and it gave out a burnt smell. After I installed a new printhead the printer would only print colours, no pigment black. I think I burned out the logic board as well as the printhead.

Before doing anything to the printhead if it seems to be clogged, please post again.

From your first post it looks like you are using new Canon OEM cartridges, not refilled or compatible cartridges. Am I right ? So bad ink could not be the cause of the problems? But even with Canon OEM ink problems with the printhead can occur after a lot of use.

Good luck with testing
Peter

Edit : I forgot one question : Does the printer print normally on your WIN 7 x64 computer using Canon stock profile? if so your custom profile file may have become corrupted.

 

[feedthestinkykitty]

Hi
A similar thing happened to me and it nearly drove me nuts before it went away on its own. It came back again months later and it only affected the 4x6 photos. It was my paper. Some had been stored after opening for a year or so. The ones near the top of the pile were worse. Ones left in the car were mixed in and they were the worse. I opened a new pack and it worked great. The absorption and drying rates have a huge effect on how the finished product looks and storage in heat or humidity or just out in the open changes it. I was surprised that older paper could make such a difference. Like night and day. I now store it sealed in a closet with a constant temperature and have had no more problem. I won't buy the huge quantities of paper that I used to either.
Hope that helps

 

[tony22]

Peter, this is a ton of information. I'd normally use a quote as part of the reply but in this case I'd be quoting the whole thing! So I'll try to provide all the relevant answers.

I ran a few print head tests from the Canon driver uklility and they seem to have come out fine so I'm hoping the print head is okay. I can't duplicate the original tonal reproduction I had but I think feedthestinkykitty (great name ) may be on to something. I can't remember exactly but at some point during that run I did switch to another package of paper (same type) and used it and another from the same recent purchase from Adorama. The first package of paper was also from Adorama but was purchased a couple of months earlier. My room is temperature and humidity controlled, but is it possible it could have been this? My profile was made with the first package of paper.

Yes I am using OEM Canon carts and inks. I will print the test pic and post it - scanned form my IT-8 calibrated flatbed scanner - after I've given it a good 24 hours to dry. I've used the stock Canon profile on recent runs as well as my profile and they both still have a slight green cast. I may have exaggerated a bit in my first post. My problem doesn't look near as bad as Photofan1986's, but by comaprison to the first prints I made certain colors - especially like my wife's light reddish brown hair - seem to have shifted so the red component is in lesser balance to the yellowish part, with the overall sense being that it's really green that's doing it (why don't I mention a few more colors while I'm at it? ). But being a bit more objective about it, the difference is small but noticeable... to me.

You'll see the post in a day or so.

 

[PeterBJ]

Hi tony22

I must admit that feedthestinkykitty's suggestion sounds very plausible, as the colour seemed to shift when you started using paper from another packet. It looks like you are storing the paper in the best possible way, but how was it stored at the shop ? I wonder if the paper can get too old, but I see no expiration date on a packet of Canon PP-101 paper I've got.

I got the impression from your first post, that people looked almost "like Martians" on your photos That made me think that magenta must be missing.

Would it be worth the effort to make a new profile for the rest of your paper ? Probably not if each sheet of paper has changed differently ? Hopefully a new packet of paper will print fine without the green cast.

If you have not already done the tests I suggested, then wait or skip it. If it is a paper problem then printer and software troubleshooting is just a waste of time.

I'm very curious now and look forward to hear about your results testing a new packet of paper.

Maybe one should start new thread on proper storage and shelf life of photo papers ? I didn't even know the problem existed, I thought that storage conditions were only that critical with the old silver based materials.

Good luck in testing
Peter

 

[tony22]

Okay Peter. Here's the image as printed on my Pro9000 Mk. II and scanned with my IT-8 calibrated Epson 1640SU using the full price version of Vuescan. Paper was out of the same batch as recent work.

This was using the stock Canon profile. I guess it's really not that bad, but it still gets me that I had better color reproduction out of whatever combination of factors that got me that first batch of prints. I still have some of these with their "printed after the mysterious change event" counterparts and can see the difference with the naked eye.

 

[PeterBJ]

Hi tony22

At first glance everything looks OK in your uploaded picture, but at a closer look there seems to be some vertical and horizontal striping in the figure with the nine squares, blue in the magenta and dark in the red square. I guess it might be artefacts due to JPEG compression. If something were wrong with the print head, the stripes should show in all parts of the picture using magenta ink, and I don't see stripes anywhere else. So I think your printer is perfectly OK and feedthestinkykitty is right about the paper.

I think the picture looks a bit pale, especially the yellow leaves in the picture from the forest, but my monitor HP w2448hc is not calibrated nor a special high quality monitor for colour work, so I cannot tell if the colours are off or not.

Could you tell me if your print shows any striping in the red and magenta squares ?

Peter

 

[tony22]

At first glance everything looks OK in your uploaded picture, but at a closer look there seems to be some vertical and horizontal striping in the figure with the nine squares, blue in the magenta and dark in the red square. I guess it might be artefacts due to JPEG compression. If something were wrong with the print head, the stripes should show in all parts of the picture using magenta ink, and I don't see stripes anywhere else. So I think your printer is perfectly OK and feedthestinkykitty is right about the paper.

.....

Could you tell me if your print shows any striping in the red and magenta squares ?

Peter, I think it must be due to JPG artifacts. Try as I might I can't see anything like that in the actual print.

I think the picture looks a bit pale, especially the yellow leaves in the picture from the forest, but my monitor HP w2448hc is not calibrated nor a special high quality monitor for colour work, so I cannot tell if the colours are off or not.

Actually, when I looked at the posted image it did appear a bit muted and just a bit lighter than the JPG image on my monitor (a calibrated Sony GDM-FW900 CRT). I can't understand how that could happen.