Magenta suddenly very, very faint on 9000-2 nozzle check

[l_d_allan]

Summary:
Nozzle check on Canon Pro 9000-2 for CLI-8M-Magenta is very, very, very faint. Worked fine three days earlier. Clogged heads? Print-head? Bad refilling technique? What to try next?

More info ... sorry for the long post:
On Saturday, I did a nozzle check, and then printed about 20 letter size glossy prints on my 9000-2. AOK. Borderless prints on Kirkland paper looked great to my less than discerning eye.

On Tuesday, I had about 20 more prints I wanted to make. My practice is to do a nozzle check before a batch of prints, just to check that all is ok. On plain copy paper, the CLI-8M Magenta looked to not be printing at all. Drat. All the other 7 colors looked normal.

Following is the steps in order I did from that point to try to diagnose what is going on, and how to fix.

* I did several more nozzle checks, with the rectangle where the Magenta should be still appearing blank on plain copy paper.

* I have kept previous nozzle checks around as a "base-line". A normal Magenta nozzle check rectangle for a 9000-2 is slightly darker than the PhotoMagenta rectangle. All eight rectangles are somewhat light during a normal 9000-2 nozzle check.

* I did a nozzle check on a glossy sheet of paper and looked very closely at it. The Magenta seems to be there, but it is very, very, very faint. Barely discernible. If you weren't looking for it, you would think it wasn't there. There seems to be a very faint difference between the boundary of the Magenta rectangle and the glossy paper.

* At one point, I'm wasn't convinced there was actually a Magenta rectangle, as sometimes we mistakenly see what we are looking for and expecting to see. I took the glossy print outside, and can barely make out the Magenta rectangle.

* I've been refilling the Canon oem CLI-8M Magenta cart with OCP ink, and my records indicate that this cart has been refilled twice. It hadn't been purged. I bought it new from Office Depot about a month ago.

* This same cart had been used to print the 20 letter size prints on Saturday. It still was about half full.

* After printing Saturday, I left the printer on, in "ready to go" state for the next batch of printing. It hadn't been turned off, and the USB cable was still connected.

* Swapped in another CLI-8M cart that had been refilled and was full. Same result ... very faint Magenta nozzle check.

* Did regular cleaning cycle and then nozzle check. Same result ... very faint Magenta nozzle check.

* Did deep cleaning cycle and then nozzle check. Same result ... very faint Magenta nozzle check.

* Printed a 4x6" test print of a Kodak-like test image ... looked terrible with Magenta obviously missing. I don't want to do much if any real printing to avoid damage to the print head.

* Swapped in another original Canon oem cart that was purchased from Office Depot and still had some original Canon ink in it ... never refilled. Same very faint Magenta nozzle check. I think this rules out the cartridge being the problem.

* Switched to Canon iP4500 inkjet which also uses CLI-8 carts. All three CLI-8M Magenta carts worked fine and provided normal nozzle checks. I think this further rules out the cartridge being the problem.

* I'm barely familiar with the Print-Driver + Maintenance + Print-Head-Alignment choice. I recall doing it once during initial setup about 5 months ago, and it reported ok.

* I did the Alignment, and only one set of 6.01 colors showed up ... my guess would be Black ok, Orange/Red ok, Photo-Magenta ok, One-line-of-Magenta bad. Green ok, PhotoCyan ok, and Cyan ok. No Yellow, oddly enough. An error was reported about "unable to do alignment", with a possibility of clogged head (didn't write down exact wording) and suggesting a Manual Alignment.

* Did a Manual Alignment via Custom Settings, and left values at zero. This time, the alignment made it all the way through. Columns A-Green, B-Red/Orange, C-PhotoCyan, D-Black, E-PhotoCyan, F-Cyan, and H-Yellow looked ok, but column G for Magenta was definitely off. Only about 5% to 10% of the number of lines appeared as the other colors. All colors were definitely darker than when a nozzle check was done.

[Edit] In hindsight based on advice in following posts, should not have done Alignments described above with flawed nozzle check.

* Another nozzle check ... same very faint Magenta. Yellow and Red carts reporting Low. Giving up for now.

I'm very unfamiliar with Canon prints-heads and what they are supposed to look like. About a week ago I figured out how to take the print-head out of the printer, just for curiousity. I briefly glanced at it, and put it back in. I probably made 50+ letter size prints since then, all fine.

I did take the print-head out of the printer and took a closer look at it since the problem started happening. Nothing seemed abnormal, but I don't know what to look for. There was some damp ink smears along the bottom of the print head where it fits in the carrier.

I'm baffled that the malfunction was sudden. The printer worked fine on Saturday. As far as I can tell, nothing changed between Saturday and Tuesday, and then the nozzle check for Magenta failed. All the same carts were in the printer. It also seems odd that the nozzle check Magenta rectangle is very, very, very faint, rather than being completely absent, or broken up with streaks.

I'd very much appreciate suggestions on further steps to try to diagnose out what is going on, and how to possibly fix. I'm pretty sure the printer is still under warranty (need to check for sure), so I am hesitant to try too much. I'm not clear whether a clogged head is considered a warranty repair, or the owner's responsibility.

I'll contact Canon tech support, but thought I would also ask the experts on this forum. I'm hoping there is a local authorized Canon repair facility, so I don't have to ship the printer to Canon.

Thanks.

 

[on30trainman]

Interestingly, I also have a Pro9000 Mk II and have also had problems with the Magenta, but also Black - I also use OCP inks. I tried cleaning the printhead many times - Windex, alcohol, water with no permanent cure. Would work for a while and then bad nozzle checks. My nozzle checks were more missing lines than light color - but the overall color did seem lighter. Even went so far as to do an ultrasonic clean, with no better results. Back in early February I called Canon and explained my problem. Was never asked if I only used OEM ink - was surprised at that. Was asked how long I had printer and told them about a year and how I bought it (off Craigslist as new - had been bought with a Canon DSLR camera). Again surprisingly - the tech offered to send me a free replacement printhead. May have helped that I also have 5 other Canon printers, 2 Canon scanners, Canon Camcorder and brand new Canon T1i DSLR - but who knows. Problem - the Pro9000 printhead was out of stock at the time and she wasn't sure when it would be available, but she said she would put in an order for me to get one as soon as it came in. Other sources on E-Bay and such also showed it to be out of stock - unless you were willing to pay about $115 or so. I waited - used my ip4500 - and yesterday FedEx delivered me a brand spanking new printhead direct from Canon. Installed and works fine - good nozzle check. So maybe you can get Canon to come through for you also - worth a try.
It is noteworthy that Canon ran out of the Pro9000 printheads - wonder if there have been a rash of failures and they couldn't keep up with the requests for replacements. Anyone else on here with the same printer having printhead problems?

Steve W.

 

[The Hat]

l_d_allan
Stop everything youre doing and dont print another sheet while this problem exists.
Take out the cartridges from the print head then remove the print head its self.
Give the print head a good wash under your water tap (faucet) for a minute or two.

Next soak it in Windex even fill the inside with Windex where the cartridges usually sit, leave it overnight.
Dry off the Windex next morning with a towel and leave it to thoroughly dry in a warm spot.

When you are sure its dry then pop it back in to the printer, not forgetting to put a few drops of Windex
on each of the ink inlets then stick in the cartridges and do a head clean, followed by a nozzle check.

If youre not getting a good print then do either another head clean or deep clean
and then try another nozzle check, now things should be looking better.

You only need to do a print head alignment once and usually only after you
have removed the print head for any reason; it doesnt do any checking for clogs.. :|

 

[nche11]

I had a similar experience way back in probably 2003 or 2004 when I had 2 Canon i950 and one i960 (same print head). One of them had a faint yellow one day. Another had a faint PC and the 3rd died after storing the printer for a few month. Those printers cost me a fortune because I got them new from computer stores.

The one got faint yellow used cheap ink cartridges bought from a flea market. Those cartridges did not look cheap but they were like a few buck each so comparing to OEM cartridges they were cheap. I was able to flush the print head with water, warm water, Isopropyl Alchohol, Windex, one after another and many days of tireless effort. Then I thought everything was OK. I continued to use those cartridges again. It probably lasted a few more weeks and the yellow was faint again. I realized that it was likely caused by the ink. I wasn't able to save the print head when I repeated all the flushing of the print head. It eventually turned into a grid pattern. I gave up the effort to save the print head.

I bought IS ink from Weink for my 2nd i950. I got a 4 oz each cartridge package for something like $50 plus shipping. It came with a set of refillable cartridges. I refilled them and saved my OEM cartridges for future use. A few months later I found my PC was barely visible. I switched to my saved OEM cartridges but it was too late. I could not revive it no matter how I flushed the print head alternately with all know cleaner and water. I loved the photos printed by those i950s so I picked up a newer replacement for the i950. It was an i960. I babied it very carefully and stick to OEM ink only for at least 2 years before I switched to 3 i6000d at an incredible deal. I stored my i960 only to find that the print head was badly clogged when I took it out to use again. I lost the print head. I still have the two i950 and the i960 but with no print heads. I don't know ehy I have not sent them to the landfill.

I think it was two lessons I learned in a row that not all 3rd party inks were safe to use. The ink might have given me a false confidence that they were safe to use when I only used my printer lightly. Once I started to print a lot of photos they clogged my print head. Not everyone will have the same problems. But for those who used their printer heavily some ink will be print head killer.

The HAT is right that you should stop using the printer if there is a slight hint of a problem. Cleaning cycles and nozzle check are the only two you can do before the problem is gone. Any clogging symptom can be fixed if it is found at the first occurrence and it is addressed immediately. Usually a cleaning cycle will fix it. If it does not it is already late to address it.

 

[mikling]

As the hat says, if there is ever a hint of banding or a not perfect nozzle check. You need to stop printing immediately. NO MORE TEST PHOTO PRINTS. Each one of those will torture your head. You will need to immediately remove and flush the nozzles under the faucet under warm water. Following that review the cartridge and see if there is an air lock or something that is stopping the cartridge from feeding properly. If the printer returns to normal and then starts the banding again, then the cartridge contents and setup needs a change. Something is not right.

I must mention that the Pro9000 is demanding printer when it comes to cartridge conditions, the ink feed rate/parameters is likely close to what the cartridge can muster. If the MkII is faster, that would mean that it is putting the cartridge even closer to the limits.....perhaps too close and occasionally crossing the line. If something is slightly not right in the cartridge then it might just cross the line and the printhead will get starved.

The speculation that there are a lot of Pro9000 heads flying off the shelves is not a good sign if this is true. This situation did not exist when the older Pro9000 existed. The i9900 received a firmware update midlife to "protect" its head. After I did this it appeared that more prime cycles were added.

Long term users of the Pro9000 head ( same heads as the i9900/i9950/8500) have a regular routine of flushing cartridges after a certain number of refills just to safeguard the printheads. It's an insurance policy to protect the heads and save expensive photo paper. Printing photos relentlessly is a bigger task than printing on plain paper. The amount of ink that must be ejected is much greater with photo paper. That means that the nozzles must heat the ink longer and faster....needs to work harder and needs ink to be delivered faster.
With wider paper, the duration of continuous printing is longer before it takes a rest and cools before it returns back in the opposite direction.

Over the years I have noted a small correlation, the shorter the printhead nozzle length ( less nozzles) , the more tolerant it was to cartridge condition. The longer nozzle patterns were more sensitive. The Pro9000 has one of the longest nozzle patterns. I don't have enough samples to make this a truth but just a noticeable observation. Others who have experience with various printers might comment otherwise.

If you have a scanner, place the head on the scanner and scan it at high resolution and look at the nozzles. When there is significant overheating you will see heat patterns on the plate and even burnt spots.

 

[nche11]

Mikling, I agree that Canon Pro9000 (I and II) require or demand that all cartridges are in absolutely mint working condition. The print head will be under tremendous load and pressure to print large number of prints in a short period of time. However, it is unthinkable if Canon did not execute an extensive testing to ensure that the print head can survive all possible load conditions provided that Canon OEM ink cartridges/ink are used. In the heaviest load condition all the ink may be exhausted in one print job with dozens of photos.

However, there are a couple of things I beg to disagree with you. Pro9000 I and II having more nozzles does not increase the load for every nozzle. In fact it will reduce the load for every nozzle. If you have a print head with millions of nozzles it will require every nozzle to fire only once to print a photo. But it will need another print head with only one nozzle to fire the nozzle millions of times to print the same photo. It is the repeated firing of the same nozzles that causes the burden or stress to the nozzles.

Canon had wide format printers such like i9100 with smaller number of nozzles. This printer was a real work horse as far as I know. It was a 6 color printer unlike Pro9000 with extra red and green cartridges. Again having two more cartridges on Pro9000 print head adds 1/3 of nozzles to the print head. So it should actually reduces the stress to the print head nozzles. I do not know why Pro9000 is not another work horse Canon sells. Being a wider format printer does add stress to the print head. if i9100 was a work horse Canon should know how to make Pro9000 another work horse.

But if we consider ink as a variable to the equation of the printer's reliability the ink variable can be the most critical factor. The ink can cause a direct impact in terms of the ink flow and the ink's ability to deal with the heater in the nozzles. If the ink causes the ink flow to be reduced the temperature of the heater will rise. This higher temperature is an extra stress to the print head. The higher temperature in the print head can be a tremendous issue to the ink too. if such ink is used by the printer for heavy duty jobs continuously that's when the printer gets damaged.

We can blame that Canon Pro9000 being not durable. But on the other hand it could be that the ink is not fully complying with the requirement to work for the printer. If you have used cheap inks you probably will agree with me. I believe this was what caused my loss of two i950 print heads. I own a Pro9000 and it is truly an amazing work horse to me.

 

[l_d_allan]

if there is ever a hint of banding or a not perfect nozzle check. You need to stop printing immediately. NO MORE TEST PHOTO PRINTS. Each one of those will torture your head.

Noted, and thanks to all who replied. The print-head is now drying, and I am looking forward to seeing if it is ok now.

I thought I'd check if the advice on the following webpage to remove ceramic plate is ok or flawed:

7 Remove the two screws from the ceramic plate on the bottom of the printhead.

8 Ease the ceramic plate away from the body of the printhead with gentle pressure. Run hot water behind the plate. Gently remove any buildup behind the plate. Rinse until the water runs clean

I speculate that it might be advantageous to loosen the screws holding on the ceramic plate so warm water could get behind the plate and remove build-up. But even that sounds iffy.

Guidance from the experts to this printhead newbie appreciated.

 

[The Hat]

l_d_allan I thought I'd check if the advice on the following webpage to remove ceramic plate is ok

Dont even think of going there, leave the print head alone remove nothing.
You would only be digging a bigger hole for yourself, one that you wouldnt be able to get out off cheaply that is..

 

[l_d_allan]

I cleaned and dried the print-head, but the Magenta is still very, very faint in the Nozzle-Check. Drat. No real progress.

Once I put the 8 carts back in, I did a whole series of Deep-Cleanings, with a Nozzle-Check afterwards. I don't know for sure what this means, but in doing the Deep-Cleanings for the CMY Group 2, the Cyan was eventually drained to Empty, and the Yellow was getting Low, The Magenta chip indicated it was getting low, but the actually ink level didn't budge from Full. So the Magenta nozzles seems quite clogged. Or perhaps it is vacuum locked?

I'm going to do another overnight cleaning, but a bit different. I rinsed out the heads again with warm water. Instead of having the head in a Windex soaked paper towel, I've got a Glad container top that has an indentation that just fits the print-head, and is about 1/3" deep. That's filled with Windex.



Also, I set up a CLI-8M-Magenta cart to be a Cleaning-Cart, filled with Windex. That is sitting in the print-head with the cart outlet port on the nozzle inlet, just like it was in the printer, except it can't be snapped into the carriage. Gradually the Windex is draining through the Magenta print-head nozzles, with something of a gravity-assist.

When I lift up and look at the print-head, I can see Magenta oozing out of the head. Nothing is coming out of the other color nozzles. This is vaguely encouraging that the Magenta nozzles may be getting unclogged.

Suggestions appreciated.

 

[The Hat]

l_d_allan Keep it going it sounds like you are getting somewhere good luck with it..