Thinning Out Ink

nanosec

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Seems all of my problems with magenta have been caused by Image Specialists magenta ink (all their other inks are fine).

Because I have a few liters of it, was wondering if I can somehow "thin" this ink out. Do you think adding a bit of isopropyl alcohol will help thin it out?
I will say that the ink is over a year old, so not sure if this also may be causing problems.

Suggestions & comments welcome :)
 

Nifty

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Funny that you bring this up, I was literally just looking over my emails for when I ordered my last batch of Image Specialists ink.

Well, I was shocked to see that I ordered my bulk amount back in 2004, and it is still running through my printer just fine!!! Maybe I'm just lucky, good environment, good batch, etc?

As far as thinning goes, I don't have a lot of recent experience, but back in 2002 when I had my Canon BJC-1000 (workhorse but not high resolution) I would thin out the ink with alcohol and it worked just fine. Now, I'm not necessarily promoting that you try this... just sharing my relevant experience from eons ago. :)
 

Grandad35

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nanosec,

Exactly what are the symptoms of your problem? How many times have you refilled your magenta cart(s)? Some inks clog the filter in the carts more quickly than others and cause ink starvation - that's why I started to periodically purge my carts. Magenta was also the ink that caused the most problems for me. Your ink may be fine.

Adding alcohol to the ink will lower its surface tension and viscosity, in addition to causing it to dry out in the nozzles more quickly. If it improved the ink's performance, IS would have added it when the ink was produced.
 

fotofreek

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label your carts when you first fill them. Track how many times you've filled each one and you will get an idea regarding the number of refills of any given color work well before the after-refilling-drip test shows that you need to purge and start over. better than having to try to diagnose why a color isn't printing when it may have been a slow feeding cart.

With top filling you can loosen or remove the seal in the fill hole and the cart should drip very easily after refilling. With either fill technique, after the fill process is complete, lightly blowing into the vent hole should produce drips. If you have to blow into the vent pretty hard you have a problem cart that needs to be purged and refilled.
 

nanosec

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That's the funny thing, these things are clogging after a purge, I fill weekly and 2 cartridges never make it through their ink before I have to purge them again.

Just for a test I used a different magenta ink I had kicking about, and so far, where I would usually have problems, there have been none. I am 99% sure it's this batch of magenta from IS.

For the record I have other printers running on the same ink with no problems, just 2 seem to need frequent purging. If I do get clogs on the other ones (it does happen, but very infrequently) it's always magenta.
 

Grandad35

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Are you using OEM carts? Did you make sure that the sponges in these carts haven't moved? You can tap the cart on various corners to move them back into position if they have moved. It is also possible that the ink pickup or soft rubber seal on the print head has been damaged, causing these carts to lose the "ink link" when they go into a negative pressure situation.
 

stratman

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nanosec said:
That's the funny thing, these things are clogging after a purge, I fill weekly and 2 cartridges never make it through their ink before I have to purge them again.

Just for a test I used a different magenta ink I had kicking about, and so far, where I would usually have problems, there have been none. I am 99% sure it's this batch of magenta from IS.
I take it that these two "problem" cartridges are not usable in your other printers. You did not mention if you tried these cartridges with the "problem" ink in other printers. If you could and they worked in other printers, then that adds another wrinkle to your issue. See "Caveat" below.

If these two problematic cartridges perform fine with different ink substituted, then it is not the printer nor the cartridges. While different solutes and specific gravities between two ink batches MAY create a problem, no one has done any studies or comparatives for there to be beyond a hypothetical assumption. Certainly dessication of the ink over time, via evaporation +/- unfavorable storage temperatures +/- direct exposure to sunlight can lead to thickened ink and flow issues. Also, increased particulates from bacterial/fungal growth or a salting out effect from some other contamination could lead to flow issues.

If you are using different cartridges altogether with different ink in them, then the problem could be the cartridges and/or the ink.

If you use different cartridges with the alledged problematic ink and there is a problem, then most likely it is the ink, though cartridge failure would not be ruled out unless the cartridge is filled with a different ink and the cartridge is then shown to function properly. I would purge before trying any different ink, both the suspected "bad" ink and a different "good" ink.

For the record I have other printers running on the same ink with no problems, just 2 seem to need frequent purging. If I do get clogs on the other ones (it does happen, but very infrequently) it's always magenta.
This would seem to point towards cartridge failure, either the sponge placement/arrangement, the sponge anatomy (altered geometry or clog), or physical alteration in the plastic of the cartridge which obstructs flow or sealing with the printhead. If different cartridges work in this printer then the problem is probably not the printer.

(Caveat --- combined changes in the physical and functional properties of the "old" cartridge and printhead (such as warped/inelastic seals), or in just one of the components, caused by usage and environmental conditions, ie "wear and tear", such that desired tolerances in the components are exceeded and a failure occurs. Use of a new cartridge or printhead solves the tolerance issue, at least temporarily until further degradation occurs in either/both component and failure once again happens)

Bottomline - if the suspect ink works in different cartridges with this or other printers, then use those different cartridges in the "problem" printer and/or use this batch of ink in your other printers where it does function appropriately. Consider purchasing a new quantity of Magenta for use in that particular "problem" printer if you want to continue to use those "problem" cartridges, or, dispose of the suspected "bad" cartridges altogether and replace them.
 

nanosec

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If you use different cartridges with the alledged problematic ink and there is a problem, then most likely it is the ink, though cartridge failure would not be ruled out unless the cartridge is filled with a different ink and the cartridge is then shown to function properly. I would purge before trying any different ink, both the suspected "bad" ink and a different "good" ink.
Yes, what would happen is the printer would stop and I would use an alternate cartridge that had been purged and refill with the IS ink. It would print for awhile and then eventually magenta would stop.
Purge another cartridge (would rotate 2 or 3) fill and continue.

(Caveat --- combined changes in the physical and functional properties of the "old" cartridge and printhead (such as warped/inelastic seals), or in just one of the components, caused by usage and environmental conditions, ie "wear and tear", such that desired tolerances in the components are exceeded and a failure occurs. Use of a new cartridge or printhead solves the tolerance issue, at least temporarily until further degradation occurs in either/both component and failure once again happens
Which explains why it happens in those two rather than all.

Bottomline - if the suspect ink works in different cartridges with this or other printers, then use those different cartridges in the "problem" printer and/or use this batch of ink in your other printers where it does function appropriately. Consider purchasing a new quantity of Magenta for use in that particular "problem" printer if you want to continue to use those "problem" cartridges, or, dispose of the suspected "bad" cartridges altogether and replace them.
Thank you for advice! Going to use a new cartridge with Image Specialist ink and put it in one of the "problem" printers and see if the problem reoccurs, and if so, does it reoccur in a different machine.
 

stratman

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nanosec said:
If you use different cartridges with the alledged problematic ink and there is a problem, then most likely it is the ink, though cartridge failure would not be ruled out unless the cartridge is filled with a different ink and the cartridge is then shown to function properly. I would purge before trying any different ink, both the suspected "bad" ink and a different "good" ink.
Yes, what would happen is the printer would stop and I would use an alternate cartridge that had been purged and refill with the IS ink. It would print for awhile and then eventually magenta would stop.
Purge another cartridge (would rotate 2 or 3) fill and continue.
An algorithm:

Do ALL cartridges you own filled with the IS Magenta ink in question fail in the "problem" printer? If yes, then it is either the ink, the cartridge or a combination of the two, or a problem with the printhead. (You would need to test the other cartridges you own)

Do these "problem" IS Magenta filled cartridges work in your other printers? If no, then it is the ink, the cartridge, or a combination of the two.

Do the problematic cartridges flushed and refilled with a different Magenta ink work in the "problematic" printer? If yes, then the problem is with the ink.

Does a brand new OEM Canon Magenta cartridge perform appropriately? If yes, then use it till empty and refill with the suspect IS Magenta ink. (I would purge just to make sure there is no reaction between the OEM ink and the IS ink - even though this has not been a reported issue - just to remove an additional potential issue that COULD cause a problem) If the new OEM cartridge that is refilled with IS Magenta performs appropriately, then the "problem" cartridges are out of tolerance, whether the IS ink is out of tolerance or not. The solution is to use new or other cartridge(s) in your inventory that do function with the IS Magenta ink in the "problematic" printer.

Finally, dispose of the failing cartridges, use them with different ink in the "problem" printer, or use them in different printers --- which ever works best for you.
 

qwertydude

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I've run into a similar problem before. It's not that the cartridge clogs it's that the foam seems to swell and no longer wicks ink properly adding photo-flo tends to make the ink flow more but it accelerates the swelling problem. My solution is after a purge I would dehydrate the foam by purging the foam with denatured alcohol, not rubbing alcohol because that contains water. After it completely dries, I put it in a warm computer case for a few days I noticed they would then behave like new and not "clog" for a few months. I've gone through such failed cartridges before and after purging and drying with alcohol they behave like brand new.

An easy way to test if the foam is swelled is to fill the cartridge with water and simply blow through the vent at the top. There shouldn't be much resistance and the water should blow out the bottom. If it's difficult to blow out the water the foam is swollen, alcohol will fix it.
 
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