The border on art papers, pro 9000

[rodbam]

Gday all
I've tried the search & didn't see much about the silly 32mm borders Canon makes us use on their fine art papers. I've just got a Pro 9000 mk2 & some Canon A3 Photo Paper Plus semi gloss & their A3+ Fine art premium matte both papers giving me great looking prints but I want to get rid of the 32mm border on the A3+ fine art setting. I've tried printing on the fine art premium matte paper & using the PPP semi gloss profile & the paper matte profile which allowed me to print at A3+ with just a 5mm border but the prints didn't come up to the quality of the Fine art premium matte profile.
Does anyone know if I have a profile made for the fine art premium matte will that enable me to print without the wide borders or is this border somehow hard wired in to the printer preferences?
If anyone has a workaround for printing without the silly border I would love to know it.
One other thing, do most people who print on these fine art papers always like to see a large white border?
Thanks all
Regards Rod

 

[siusiuenen]

From what I know, there aren't work around for that . But I do like the border on this paper . I't made my print look ...art .

 

[rodbam]

Thanks. I was wondering if anyone got good results by making the printer think it was printing on another type of paper but with the two I tried it wasn't good enough. Yes the shots do look very arty with the border.

 

[l_d_allan]

Rodbam,

I'm interested in what you find out. So far, I've mostly printed with budget paper (Costco Kirkland and rebated Staples) as I learn the difficult art of printing. I have ordered A3+ 13x19" paper, but it hasn't arrived yet. The only thing I've used actual Canon paper for is as a base-line to compare against other paper, mostly of Kodak-like test prints.

To me, that fine art paper is really expensive. Seems a waste of $$$ to not use all of it for printing, borderless preferrably or perhaps just enough for the mat(sp?) to cover.

Here's some things to try ... which I haven't done yet so "consider the source" and I've not really advocating. Some could be bad ideas and have ink spraying around where it doesn't belong. I only know about two models of Canon printers.

* If available in your print-driver, experiment with turning off "Detect Margins", so you can fib to the printer about the actual size. Be careful with this, obviously, and I'd start with cheap, copy paper.

* Another fib might be putting the paper in but not against the right edge .... offset by 20mm or so. Use Custom sizes.

* Qimage may provide this capability ... but I am ignorant. Maybe ask on their forum?

* Another post mentioned Poster, which seems like a lower cost, less capable QImage.

* I believe that "custom RIP's" (raster image processor) are available which let you bypass the print-driver. My impression is that they ain't free ... could be pricey, but an option if you really need to accomplish over-ridding the margins.

* Another fib might be using the extra thick art paper, but with the MediaType set to Glossy. Then use the "Prevent Paper Abrasion" setting to increase the gap between the paper and print-head. Use Custom Sizes.

* You could put more than one image on a large sheet, and plan on using a paper cutter. (not advocating this ... an option)

Again, "consider the source" ... the above are just things to consider trying. Consider asking on DPR's printing forum?

 

[rodbam]

Thanks. Yes I suppose I could try everything & the secret might be as you suggest is to use cheaper papers to keep the costs down. There are some easy ways to print at the full A3+ size but the quality suffers. Maybe the rips you mention is the only way out. I was hoping a profile might fix this but that would be too easy. It might be we are stuck with the large borders on fine art paper.

 

[fotofreek]

Difficult to fathom canon's thoughts on art paper, but every art print, etching, silk screen, monoprint I've seen done on special art paper is done with a healthy sized border. The value of such prints is diminished if a thoughtless framer cuts any of the border away before framing the print.

 

[l_d_allan]

Further speculation ....

* If you are a pro selling a print, the cost of the paper and ink tends to be negligible.

* For a matted, framed print, my impression is that the cost of the paper is the least expensive item on the B.O.M. ... perhaps by far.

* Typically, there is a markup on materials, so the more spent on paper, the more profit (and I am certainly not anti-profit ... don't let me get started)

Trying to "wear the mocassins" of a hobby'ist with perhaps "more dollars than sense" ...

* If an image is that important, then you probably want archival paper and ink combinations. So it's already quite expensive, and why not splurge?

* Using the large borders may decrease the cost of the mat(sp? ... is it matte .... shows what I know).

* If you are entering a contest or some other exhibit like a club meeting "show and tell", that may be the expectation ... written or unwritten.

At some point I'm going to do the 14-day trial on QImage Ultimate. I've got a huge amount of letter size A4 photo printing coming up over the next month or so, and that would be a good time. Potentially 1000's of A4 prints this summer. I really suspect QImage can do this quasi-rip'ing to over-ride the print-driver limitations, and will try to remember to experiment.

Or if you (or another thread reader) trial QImage, please update this thread with what you find out. TIA.

Or perhaps a NS thread with the specific question:
"Can QImage Ult. over-ride the print-driver margin on fine art paper?"

Done.

 

[rodbam]

Thanks Photofreek at least that's reassuring that the norm is to have a white border around art prints. I was confused because I have just joined a camera club & submitted a nice boat at anchor sunrise shot with quite delicate colours so I printed it on Canons fine art premium matte & we all thought it looked great but at the camera club judging the judge criticised the white border.
Here's a shot of my camera club entries with the art paper on the left. I had to put a matte on it so they can handle it at the club & black was all I had. I hope the link works
http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i406/rodbam/IMG_3063.jpg

 

[fotofreek]

Rodbam - check out this link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giclée . This article describes the making of fine art DIGITAL prints. Generally, photos are displayed without a white border but with frames and mats. They may be printed with borders which are then covered in the process of matting. Without a border the mat would essentially crop the image.

Fine art prints generally have borders and are not done borderless. You may not see the border, however, as the mat may cover it. Nonetheless, you always leave the border on the fine art print. As I mentioned before, the value of a fine art print will be lowered by cutting any part of the border off. If you look in catalogs for fine art prints you will see that the description includes the size of the paper on which it is printed. It has nothing to do with the cost of the materials. You will never see the sale price of a fine art print with a list of materials and their costs.

 

[mikling]

There is another reason to have the border. When the paper is fed, it is ideal if it is held down between the front and rear rollers before printing starts.
You'd really appreciate this is if there is some lateral curl on the paper.

If printing begins prior to the front edge of the paper reaching the front feed rollers, the curl can catch the printhead.

If the curled corners contacts the printhead nozzles at the start, it could cause the nozzles to not fire properly and then you'd have a print with some beautiful banding with some pricey paper. You'd be overjoyed at that.

So perhaps the retention of the border is to mitigate the above scenario.