1. Dismiss Notice
  2. Picture Of The Week (POW) Information and Submissions
    CLICK HERE!
    (if you are logged in, this notice can be dismissed using the "x" to the top right of the notice)

    Dismiss Notice
  3. Official PK Poll: Is there any future in refilling?
    CLICK HERE!
    (if you are logged in, this notice can be dismissed using the "x" to the top right of the notice)

    Dismiss Notice
  4. PK Featured Thread: A Basic Question on Linen Paper?
    CLICK HERE!
    (if you are logged in, this notice can be dismissed using the "x" to the top right of the notice)

    Dismiss Notice

Should I spring for a new printhead?

Discussion in 'Canon InkJet Printers' started by russell, Jul 12, 2018 at 3:13 PM.

  1. Jul 12, 2018 at 3:13 PM
    russell

    russell Printing Apprentice

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Printer Model:
    Canon PIXMA ip8720
    2018-07-12  black & grey streaks.jpg 2018-07-12  black & grey streaks.jpg 2018-07-12  black & grey streaks.jpg Printer is Canon ip8720 about 2 years old. Paper is Canon Pro Premium Matte 13x19. Printing b&w. Not using color management option but instead plain paper, grayscale which uses primarily the OEM Canon PGI-250XL <PGBK> pigment ink cartridge giving me totally color tints-free prints. My on-going problem is side-to-side streaks in the solid black areas. Not thin white lines commonly seen in nozzle checks. My nozzle checks are clean and solid. My streaks are intermittent shades lighter and twice as wide than the solid blacks preceding and following them. In other words - alternating solid black lines of say 1/8 inch and then 1/4 inch a shade lighter. From a distance the streaks are not so apparent but holding the print very close to a light reveals them more. All of the inks are OEM Canon. Previously last year I was using compatible inks to save money but switched back after cleaning, flushing the print head a few times. I ran tests with different papers of lighter weights thinking the Pro Matte at 12.2 mil was too thick - but same streaks on those papers as well. 2018-07-12  black & grey streaks.jpg 2018-07-12  black & grey streaks.jpg 2018-07-12  black & grey streaks.jpg So, should I spring for a new print head at $70?
     
  2. Jul 12, 2018 at 9:45 PM
    PeterBJ

    PeterBJ Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    3,741
    Likes Received:
    2,974
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    Copenhagen Denmark
    Printer Model:
    Canon MP970 + more printers
    I don't know If I understood this correctly: By using the greyscale and plain paper settings you force the printer to print using only the PGBK cartridge even if photo paper is being printed on?

    But the PGBK ink is unsuitable for printing on photo paper. It will not sink into the paper and can easily be rubbed off. It might also be the cause of the striping.

    How does the image print on plain paper with these settings? If the plain paper print is OK I think the print head is OK. If the print looks the same, the print head might be at fault.

    You can flush the pigment black cartridge and refill it with photo (dye) black ink. This ink is suitable for printing on photo paper and you will still be using only one ink with your settings. Some third party PGI 220 cartridges actually contain dye black instead of pigment black. I think the use of a such cartridge is the easiest way of changing the pigment black ink to dye black.

    Here is a post about how to test if an unknown black ink is pigment or dye and more is found in this thread.

    Here is the result of printing with dye black in a PGBK cartridge. There is no colour cast, but the resolution is lower than when printing with the dye (photo) cartridges.
     
    stratman and The Hat like this.
  3. Jul 13, 2018 at 12:57 AM
    russell

    russell Printing Apprentice

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Printer Model:
    Canon PIXMA ip8720
    PeterBJ -
    1 - I've been printing on matte paper exclusively and it does dry into the paper. Earlier today I made a print on luster and just now rubbed it and the ink came off on to my finger - not so with the matte.
    2 - A print on plain paper with the same settings showed no striping at all so that's a relief.
    3 - My ip8720 printer has 6 carts including a photo black, grey and the PGI-250XL PGBK. I don't think PGI 220 carts fit into my printer.
    4 - The streaking on Canon Matte is less apparent on Red River Polar Matte.
    Thanks PeterBJ. Your info and advice is a relief. A relief to know that it's the pigment ink(I hope) on photo paper causing the streaks.
     
    stratman and PeterBJ like this.
  4. Jul 13, 2018 at 6:09 AM
    PeterBJ

    PeterBJ Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    3,741
    Likes Received:
    2,974
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    Copenhagen Denmark
    Printer Model:
    Canon MP970 + more printers
    You are right. It was a typo. I meant a compatible PGI-250(XL) cartridge. The PGI-220 cartridge is a previous generation with different dimensions and wont fit in your printer.
     
  5. Jul 13, 2018 at 6:57 AM
    russell

    russell Printing Apprentice

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Printer Model:
    Canon PIXMA ip8720
    I checked around a little and did not find any PGI-250XL carts filled w/dye ink.All pigment. Also the OEM Canon carts I have now are not the refillable kind. Thanks Canon! So I can order a a kit from PrecisionColors which includes their own designed set of Canon ip8720 carts for refilling with their inks. Even tho I only need the 250XL cart, I have to buy the whole set. Before I do that I think I'll switch papers from Canon Matte to Red River Matte. The base is whiter than Canon's and a little less in weight. My test I mentioned previously showed almost no evidence of streaking on RR Matte, so I'll see after more tests. Thanks again. By the way - I think I read on one of the links you gave me that the nozzles on the PGI-250 are different for pigments than from the PGI-251 nozzles for dyes. Is running dye ink thru pigment nozzles going to be a problem with saturation/distribution/coverage?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018 at 1:59 PM
  6. Jul 13, 2018 at 10:15 AM
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    10,422
    Likes Received:
    4,560
    Trophy Points:
    393
    Location:
    Wicklow Ireland
    Printer Model:
    Canon were, BUT 3D is better..
    @russell, If you intend refilling your PGl-251/250 carts and get the best quality results, then the only carts to use are OEM XL carts, they are more expensive but long term they will give you no trouble, unlike the way refillable carts do.

    If you only print with B&W you should use all your carts and not just the pigment cart, you can tinker and test with the colour setting to eliminate any colour hue you might be getting, the extra quality you’ll get from your prints will make it well worth the effort.

    I reckon @PeterBJ test girl sheet might help you with colour correction...
    Try it... ;)
     

    Attached Files:

    PeterBJ likes this.
  7. Jul 13, 2018 at 10:50 AM
    PeterBJ

    PeterBJ Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    3,741
    Likes Received:
    2,974
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    Copenhagen Denmark
    Printer Model:
    Canon MP970 + more printers
    The Hat likes this.
  8. Jul 13, 2018 at 4:05 PM
    stratman

    stratman Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    5,060
    Likes Received:
    3,286
    Trophy Points:
    373
    Location:
    USA
    Printer Model:
    Canon MP830, Pencil
    Correct. You need to do your own refilling with Dye-based ink in the 250 cartridge.

    Sure they are. You will need to make a hole in order to refill. You will also need a chip resetter.

    Chip resetters for your cartridge are available but may only last up to 100 resets. An example is here. (I am not necessarily advocating this particular chip resetter. It does appear to work. You should look around the internet using Google.) The cost of the resetter is same or less than the cost of the aftermarket cartridges with ARC chips, plus you would be using OEM Canon cartridges which is preferred. Bulk refilling ink from Precision Colors is an excellent choice, IMO, if you live in or around North America.
     
    The Hat likes this.
  9. Jul 13, 2018 at 5:09 PM
    PeterBJ

    PeterBJ Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    3,741
    Likes Received:
    2,974
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    Copenhagen Denmark
    Printer Model:
    Canon MP970 + more printers
    I think many, maybe even most, compatible "Big Black" PGI-x50 cartridges contain dye ink. If the ad does not clearly state the cartridge contains pigment ink it is probably dye ink. Here is a compatible PGI-550XL cartridge that a test showed contained dye ink. Notice that no name or the word "Pigment" appears on the cartridge. I have attached a scan of the photo paper I used to test if the ink was pigment or dye:

    C550XL P-D test.jpg

    The ink dots marked "?" from the cartridge could not be rubbed of under water, meaning dye ink. I rubbed off two of the known pigment dots marked "P". The known dye dots marked "D" couldn't be rubbed off.

    But maybe the best thing is to continue using Canon OEM PGI-250XL cartridges. It seems the print heads for the PGI-x50/CLI-x51 cartridges are more fragile and both pigment and dye ink are at risk of getting damaged when using after market ink. Some speculate the damage is caused by an ink with insufficient cooling properties. Here is an example of damaged PGBK nozzles.

    Even if the pigment ink is intended for use on plain paper only, your results with some photo papers suggests you might find a paper that works well with the piogment ink.

    Printer, print head, ink and paper works together as a system and changing one of them might change the print result very much. Even if this thread is about refilling a pigment black cartridge it shows the result of printing with an ink that is not suitable for the cartridge or the paper.
     
    stratman and The Hat like this.

Share This Page