Recommendations on ink photo printer

[PhotoJan]

Hi,
I am fairly new to the game and would greatly appreciate some recommendations on photo printer. I am looking for a solution to cover my photo print scenarios in a value for money manner. Expected print volume for the first year is:
50x A3 borderless photo print outs
100x A4 borderless photo print outs
200x smaller than A4, borderless photo print outs
Majority of the photos will be people's portraits. All photo print outs should be fairly fade resistant meaning A3/A4 would be hanging on the walls and smaller print outs would go to photo albums. Therefore I assume the printer should use pigment inks. I was looking at printers like Canon Pixma Pro-100S or Epson SC-P400. On the other hand if there is a solution how to replace dye inks with pigment inks and use Epson's Ecotank printers like L1800/L7180/ET7750 for the job and minimize running cost that would be also great. I have no special requirements on paper and I am fine with paper specs of the mentioned printers. Thank you for your insights.
Jan

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

You are raising some very valid questions for your photo printer aquisition, please let me comment on some issues.
The best dye inks in regards to fading are the genuine OEM inks - Canon Chromalife or Epson Claria, refill inks don't give you comparible performance at all. Epson users have a budget option - the Epson 106 inks for the ET7750 can be used for refill for other printers - e.g. the L1800, the 106 inks perform better than the inks which come with the L1800. Canon Pro 100 users don't have this option, they should stay with the original Chromalife inks if fade resistance is of concern.
You can use refill pigment inks in Epson printers which originally come with dye inks - like the mentioned L1800, I did it some time ago with an L800 and earlier with R265 printers, it works, it prints but you need specific icm color profiles for all your paper/ink combinations.
Genuine A3 pigment ink printers are the Epson P400 and P600, and the Canon Pro 10s, the Pro10s and the P400 use some auxilliary clear cover liquid - a gloss/chroma optimizer, the Epson P600 does not.
You do not mention you paper preferences - e.g. matte or glossy, as long as you use genuine inks/cartridges for your printer together with genuine Canon/Epson papers you can expect very good results overall, but as soon as you consider refill and 3d party papers - including premium papers - you need to test it out how you like the quality and the look of your prints - every paper/ink paper combination will give you different results , there is no general recommendation possible. It would be somewhat easier in this respect with dye inks on glossy - silk - satin type papers, there is not so much a strong interdependence between inks and papers.

 

[PhotoJan]

Thank you Ink stained Fingers for your comments. The burning question is: Are OEM dye (Epson 106) inks on OEM Epson glossy paper good enough for my print scenario? What can be expected - how long will those photos last or when they start to noticeably fade? I could sacrifice a small loss of quality in a favor for running costs but as always everything has its limits. Otherwise Epson SC-P400/Canon Pro 10s/pigment cartridge ink printers remain the only option...

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

There are some test results qualifying parameters like x display hours under the test conditions but it is difficult to transfer those data into real life applications, those numbers only help for a relative comparison of e.g. different inks under the same test condition. Epson or Canon genuine inks are by far the best compared to refill inks, and UV resistance claimed by some other suppliers is an emply promise. And it's not just UV, but other gaseous substances like ozone, formaldehyd , smoke causing longer term deterioration. Epson e.g. claims 300 years color stability for dye prints stored in an album for one ink, and claims persistence for generations to come for prints with some other ink , you can get the impression that there is a difference - but how much is it at the end ?
You may have a look as well to the Epson P600, it comes with larger cartridges than the P400. Refill is possible for all printers listed above - Epson P400/600 or Canon Pro 100/10s

 

[PhotoJan]

This is what I found in Epson's sources about their

dye inks:
105/106 EcoTank Inks (used by L800/L1800/L7180/DT7750) - can last for 300 years in a photo album

pigment inks:
CLARIA PHOTO HD INK - can last for 300 years in a photo album

DURABrite Ultra Ink has a fade resistance rating up to 105 years

ULTRACHROME HI-GLOSS2 INK (used by P400) - prints can last well over 50 years

UltraChrome HD ink (used by P600/P800) - using Epson’s “Advanced Black and White Print Mode” will likely exceed 400 years. Prints made on Epson fine art photo papers and canvas are also expected to have WIR Album and Dark Storage Permanence Ratings well in excess of 200 years

Anyway I found some report on the L800 dye inks which are rated to last on Epson Photo Paper "only" up to 19 years.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

there is a similar thread running here
www.printerknowledge.com/threads/pro100-refilled-cartridges-strange-orange-tint-on-photos-after-a-while.13591/post-117957
Aardenburg has more data; L800 inks are tpye 673 inks, not 106 inks - these are much better.
What does the dark storge rating mean for real life situations - not really very much.
But all this shows - therre is not the one and only best solution for you , every ink/paper combination gives different results, there are good and not so good pigment ink/paper results , and good and inferior and much worse results with dye inks - there are dye inks you can watch fading - from one day to another and how yould you know upfront ?

 

[YourInkedGirl]

Hi,
I am fairly new to the game and would greatly appreciate some recommendations on photo printer. I am looking for a solution to cover my photo print scenarios in a value for money manner. Expected print volume for the first year is:
50x A3 borderless photo print outs
100x A4 borderless photo print outs
200x smaller than A4, borderless photo print outs
Majority of the photos will be people's portraits. All photo print outs should be fairly fade resistant meaning A3/A4 would be hanging on the walls and smaller print outs would go to photo albums. Therefore I assume the printer should use pigment inks. I was looking at printers like Canon Pixma Pro-100S or Epson SC-P400. On the other hand if there is a solution how to replace dye inks with pigment inks and use Epson's Ecotank printers like L1800/L7180/ET7750 for the job and minimize running cost that would be also great. I have no special requirements on paper and I am fine with paper specs of the mentioned printers. Thank you for your insights.
Jan

Is it really needed to change from dye inks t pigment inks? I hope you guys after doing it, post pictures on how to do it exactly. I would like to have visuals on how. so I won't call a technician to do it for me.

 

[palombian]

Is it really needed to change from dye inks t pigment inks? I hope you guys after doing it, post pictures on how to do it exactly. I would like to have visuals on how. so I won't call a technician to do it for me.

@Ink stained Fingers elaborates all options with respect to everyones choices, but reading between the lines you can make your own conclusion (warning from an addict).

If you want to refill, go to pigment if you need longevity.
Be prepared for a learning cycle and upstart costs.
Since A3 dye printers are not so much cheaper than pigments, this is not really a decision factor compared by the possible economies - although pigment ink is more expensive and the paper choice more limited.

The bigger the printer the lower the cost per print.
Low cost consumer dye printers are more expensive to print at home than outside (very cheap up to A4 also).

Prices can differ, but you would spend about € 1000 to a basic online photo service for the proposed volume, while with € 300 you could buy basic photo paper and ink.
The difference could pay your initial investment.

But then you are lost since you have to print a lot to do it cheap .
You are limited in (and to) paper, size etc.
You will spend quite some time in the basement flushing and filling carts, not to speak about clogged printheads.

If you give it up after a year you could have outsourced everything as well.

See it as a separate hobby.

 

[YourInkedGirl]

@Ink stained Fingers elaborates all options with respect to everyones choices, but reading between the lines you can make your own conclusion (warning from an addict).

If you want to refill, go to pigment if you need longevity.
Be prepared for a learning cycle and upstart costs.
Since A3 dye printers are not so much cheaper than pigments, this is not really a decision factor compared by the possible economies - although pigment ink is more expensive and the paper choice more limited.

The bigger the printer the lower the cost per print.
Low cost consumer dye printers are more expensive to print at home than outside (very cheap up to A4 also).

Prices can differ, but you would spend about € 1000 to a basic online photo service for the proposed volume, while with € 300 you could buy basic photo paper and ink.
The difference could pay your initial investment.

But then you are lost since you have to print a lot to do it cheap .
You are limited in (and to) paper, size etc.
You will spend quite some time in the basement flushing and filling carts, not to speak about clogged printheads.

If you give it up after a year you could have outsourced everything as well.

See it as a separate hobby.

Very detailed instructions, Thank you very much. The only thing I need now is courage for me to do it on my own. Its still in good working condition after the initial fix. hahahahaha!!