Purging w/hard water

jflan

Printing Ninja
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
336
Reaction score
0
Points
99
Location
Vancouver, Washington
I live in Vancouver, WA and while I wouldn't classify our tap water as typical hard water, there are traces of minerals that can be seen on plumbing fixtures.
I think it's somewhere in-between as far as water softness goes.

Would purging with this tap water be harmful to my printer (printhead)?
 

Smile

Printer Master
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
1,914
Reaction score
417
Points
253
Location
Europe EU
Printer Model
Canon, Brother, HP, Ricoh etc.
Since I doubt anyone in the world drinks so good quality water that it is distilled water (demineralized water) that has no taste and can be harmful for humasn but suitable can be used in printer head washing / cartridge purging procedures.

So my answer is you need to use distilled water to wash you cartridges a bottle costs 1.5$ as far as I know. Heat the water and wash it by any method you can find on this website. 20 or 30 cc syringe with fittings works best for me.

I still can't understand if general use knows what a picoliter is and that microscopic nozzles are used in printer heads how dumb he must be to use tap water? Don’t you look at the heating element in you teapot / coffee-pot for a start?
 

stratman

Printer VIP
Platinum Printer Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
8,712
Reaction score
7,163
Points
393
Location
USA
Printer Model
Canon MB5120, Pencil
Your local City Hall can direct you to information concerning the mineral/chemical content of your city's tap water. You could also have your water checked, for a fee usually, to see how "hard" your personal tap water is. Those that have well water have had a test at some time as part of a home purchase or a maintenance check.

If you're unsure or just want to be cautious, you could use only DISTILLED WATER, which is water that has had most or all minerals, bacteria, and virii removed by the distillation process (boiling and condensing) leaving behind nearly pure H2O. Withouth the minerals to scale up the sponge, or the bacteria and virii to gunk up the sponge, you should have the best chance for a smooth flow of ink through the sponge.

There is another school of thought that says to flush with tap water first (as long as it's not very hard... whatever that means) and then do a final flush with distilled water to remove most of the mineral content in the tap water remaining in the sponge.

For more info on purified water see whacky wikipedia at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distilled_water.

Finally, exactly how would tap water purged cartridges affect printheads, or, how would a tap water purged printhead affect the printhead from mineral buildup? Good question for which I don't know.

My Cannon printer has 2 picoliter nozzles (IIRC), which is two trillionth's of a liter. I'll leave it to someone else to comment on particulate, bacteria and virii sizes and comparing that to printer nozzle sizes in order to understand risk of clogging up a printhead.
 

avolanche

Print Addict
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
247
Reaction score
64
Points
178
Location
East Tennessee
I use tap water.Never had any problems.If you run some ink through the head immediately,that should flush any water.Or flush with alcohol or a small amount of distilled water after a main flush with tap water.

Is there more than anecdotal evidence or conjecture tha tap water(even very hard tap water) causes problems?
 

stratman

Printer VIP
Platinum Printer Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
8,712
Reaction score
7,163
Points
393
Location
USA
Printer Model
Canon MB5120, Pencil
avolanche said:
I use tap water.Never had any problems.If you run some ink through the head immediately,that should flush any water.Or flush with alcohol or a small amount of distilled water after a main flush with tap water.

Is there more than anecdotal evidence or conjecture tha tap water(even very hard tap water) causes problems?
I wouldn't expect official scientific studies on flushing anytime soon. The big boys like Canon and Epson won't be releasing any data to the public anytime soon. :lol:

As far as I know it is nearly all anecdotal information concerning anything to do with refilling, including flushing of cartridges. Some notable exceptions are Grandad35's magnificient work on aftermarket ink color reproduction and some studies done on longevity of aftermarket ink prints. All the flushing information appears to be based on trial and error where Grandad35 once again was a leader in providing data to this forum.

Like you, I also use only tap water for flushing cartridges. Works perfectly for me... so far. Never worked on a printhead. (knocking on wood)
 

avolanche

Print Addict
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
247
Reaction score
64
Points
178
Location
East Tennessee
stratman said:
avolanche said:
I use tap water.Never had any problems.If you run some ink through the head immediately,that should flush any water.Or flush with alcohol or a small amount of distilled water after a main flush with tap water.

Is there more than anecdotal evidence or conjecture tha tap water(even very hard tap water) causes problems?
I wouldn't expect official scientific studies on flushing anytime soon. The big boys like Canon and Epson won't be releasing any data to the public anytime soon. :lol:

As far as I know it is nearly all anecdotal information concerning anything to do with refilling, including flushing of cartridges. Some notable exceptions are Grandad35's magnificient work on aftermarket ink color reproduction and some studies done on longevity of aftermarket ink prints. All the flushing information appears to be based on trial and error where Grandad35 once again was a leader in providing data to this forum.

Like you, I also use only tap water for flushing cartridges. Works perfectly for me... so far. Never worked on a printhead. (knocking on wood)
I fully agree with your statement.Maybe I should have said "Is there *any* anecdotal evidence,or is it just purely speculation" that tap water will clog a printhead?When I purged my cartridges,I made sure to vacuum all the water out and it was easy.It's just as simple to run a little alcohol or distilled water through a head....even IF that is necessary,and I believe it is not.

Also,I would assume that any Ca deposits would be redissolved as the ink runs through the head since water is the "solvent" for the ink and Ca alike.And I would aslo assume that deposits,if any,would be minimal.
 

Smile

Printer Master
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
1,914
Reaction score
417
Points
253
Location
Europe EU
Printer Model
Canon, Brother, HP, Ricoh etc.
You could perform a very easy experiment:

One CLI-8 cart holds about 13ml of ink so one would need to weight (call it v1) on very precise scales a laboratory glass flask.
Then pour tap water into it. Up to 1 liter mark.

Boil the water until there is nothing left.
Weight the flask again (call it v2) and if it's 1 liter flask then you should subtract (v2 - v1:) then divide the weight by 76.92307

You should get the weight of minerals that will contaminate your sponge in normal understandable way.
 

Grandad35

Printer Master
Platinum Printer Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
1,669
Reaction score
182
Points
223
Location
North of Boston, USA
Printer Model
Canon i9900 (plus 5 spares)
Smile said:
You could perform a very easy experiment:

One CLI-8 cart holds about 13ml of ink so one would need to weight (call it v1) on very precise scales a laboratory glass flask.
Then pour tap water into it. Up to 1 liter mark.

Boil the water until there is nothing left.
Weight the flask again (call it v2) and if it's 1 liter flask then you should subtract (v2 - v1:) then divide the weight by 76.92307

You should get the weight of minerals that will contaminate your sponge in normal understandable way.
This link says that "hard water" contains about 100 mg/L (as calcium), or about 0.01% by weight. I use tap water to purge, and am able to remove all but about 1/2 CC of water using vacuum/low pressure compressed air. This would leave a maximum of 0.05 mg of mineral deposits in each purged cart, even with "hard" water. Depending on the density of the minerals, this would give a solid cube of deposits about the size of a single grain of salt.

After the cart is dried and ink added, the deposits will either redissolve or they won't. If they don't redissolve, they will be caught on the filter and purged out on the next purge cycle, causing no harm. If they do redissolve, a small fraction of them could be deposited on the "heaters" that boil the ink. However, these minerals aren't the only thing that can be deposited on the heaters at these temperatures - try heating antifreeze to 300 deg C and see what happens. For this reason, ink formulations usually have additives that fight this kogation, and which should also help to remove any such mineral buildup.

Clearly, using distilled water is a safer approach, especially if you are already using a syringe to pressure purge. For those of us who prefer to use tap water, I have seen no evidence of a print head problem even after a few years on the same print head, printing the equivalent of 3000 8x10 pages on the highest quality setting, using about 300 refilled carts in the process.
 

stratman

Printer VIP
Platinum Printer Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
8,712
Reaction score
7,163
Points
393
Location
USA
Printer Model
Canon MB5120, Pencil
A website which assesses tap water quality for communities in the United States - http://www.ewg.org/tapwater/index.php.

Won't answer our thread's questions but is interesting to read what's in our drinking water.

I did read that water softening companies will offer free water test kits.
 

jflan

Printing Ninja
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
336
Reaction score
0
Points
99
Location
Vancouver, Washington
Grandad35 said:
Clearly, using distilled water is a safer approach, especially if you are already using a syringe to pressure purge. For those of us who prefer to use tap water, I have seen no evidence of a print head problem even after a few years on the same print head, printing the equivalent of 3000 8x10 pages on the highest quality setting, using about 300 refilled carts in the process.
This is reassuring, thanks Grandad35.
All the responses have merit.
I've decided to go with a distilled water flush as follows:

1.) Drill a 1/8" hole over the reservoir tank starting with a 7/64" bit (for accuracy) and finishing with a 1/8" bit . I'm using power with low rpm.

2.) 60ml (2 oz) syringe w/tapered tip with 3" - 4" of 3/8" ID clear flexible tubing pressed onto the taper.

3.) With the syringe assembly filled with heated, distilled water press the other end of the tubing over the cart's exit port and start flushing with moderate pressure.
I'm guessing that the microwave-heated water is around 140F, or about equal to hot tap water.
Stained flushing water easily escapes through the 1/8" hole as Grandad35 has shown.
The short section of tubing keeps things compact and allows me to keep both hands on the cart to maintain a seal as the pressure builds. I place the plunger end against my waist or the sink wall.

4.) After flushing use the empty syringe assembly to apply suction to empty the cart of flushing water. After suctioning, I apply a small amt. of canned air into the 1/8" hole. This gets some additional water out of the cart.
It's summer here, so I let the sun evaporate the rest of the water.

5.) Close the 1/8" hole with a silicone rubber bung designed for 1/8" as supplied by Hobbicolors.

It takes me about 8 oz to completely flush, so that's 4 reps per.
For my small volume it's perfect, but for a large volume of flushing it would be time-consuming.
 

Latest posts

Top