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problem printer profiling with argyll, bad greyscale

Discussion in 'Printing Photos and Photo Software' started by petrena, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. Jul 21, 2018
    petrena

    petrena Newbie to Printing

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    Hi,
    just got my colormunki photo and started profiling my printer, Canon IP7250.
    With the X-Rite software i1Studio the result is OK, with the preferred rendering intent "perceptual" the colours are great, the greyscale is complete, but the dark colours and black are a tiny bit less dark.

    Argyll is supposed to give better results, even with "only" 210 patches.
    Well the colours and contrast, the "intensity" is a bit better, but I have problems with the greyscale, the darkest greys (1-9%) are all black only. This also happens when using the Xrite profile with rendering intens "relative"...

    So because the XRite software does produce a suitable profile I think that is has to do with the Argyll software or some settings?

    Here is what I used with Argyll:

    "D:\Argyll_V2.0.1\bin\targen.exe" -v -d2 -G -g10 -f210 -c "ocpdk.icm" "profil"
    tried also with 420 patches and 100 greyscales

    "D:\Argyll_V2.0.1\bin\printtarg.exe" -v -i CM -h -T 300 -C -p A4 "profil"

    "D:\Argyll_V2.0.1\bin\chartread.exe" -v -H -T0.4 "profil"
    tried also without -H and -T, no difference

    "D:\Argyll_V2.0.1\bin\colprof.exe" -v -D"sihl" -Zr -qh -i D50 -S "AdobeRGB.icc" -cmt -dpp -O "sihl" "profil"

    what could I do??


    ICC Service.jpg
    this is the softproof of a "professional" profile

    Xrite profile.jpg
    softproof XRite profile, perceptual, a bit "pale"

    Argyll profile.jpg
    Argyll profile

    Argyll profile 100grey.jpg
    Argyll, 420 patches, 100grey
     
  2. Jul 21, 2018
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Moderator

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    @petrena, I hate to put a spanner in the works on you but, your Argyll X-Rite is being wasted on your current choice of printer, you’d be better off just letting the printer control the colour and just choose the Media yourself.

    You need to get yourself a dedicated Photo printer to get the best results from your Argyll X-Rite software and to have more control over your prints, a 21 shade StepWedge would also work much better...
    Now I’ll let the real Photographers lend a guiding hand...:hide
     
  3. Jul 21, 2018
    petrena

    petrena Newbie to Printing

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    thanks, I'm not using canon paper and ink because of the cost...
    But the profiles I got from the ICC service are perfect, just want to match them with Argyll...
     
  4. Jul 23, 2018
    Harvey

    Harvey Printer Guru

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    I will contact you in order to help you and if the problem if solved it will be shared here.
     
  5. Jul 23, 2018
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    I think there is some confusion what you can expect in terms of printing dark gray tones.

    Let's assume that the black point of the paper you are using is at L*=10% which is quite typical. That automatically means that any gray values with a lower luminance level - 5% or 3% - which you still can differentiate on your display - will be printed as black because these dark grays are below the black level. Since this is a kind of unwanted effect the preceptual rendering intent uses a function called 'black point compensation' - (Tiefenkompensierung), the rel- col. rendering intent does not by default.
    I won't like to go into too much detail of BPC, there is quite some good stuff on the internet when you google for it - just like this info
    http://www.gamutvision.com/docs/blackpoint.html
    This BPC function is separate from your question whether ArgyllCMS generates a good enough/accurate profile at lower luminance values with 210 patches, this would require a comparison of profiles generated otherwise with the same conditions - same number of patches - same driver settings etc - but processing the profile either with ArgyllCMS, ColorMunki, i1profiler whatever.
    So comparing profiles would e.g. require to run one profile with thousends of patches to get a high density of contol points in the darker region, and comparing this against a profile generated only with 210 (or a similar low number of ) patches, with just a few control points in the darker range.
    Let me give you another explanation of the situation in photographic terms - an f-stop is the contrast ratio of 1:2,
    assume that the white point of your paper is at 100% ( which it isn't), you are at L=50% with one f-stop down, at 25% with 2 f-stops, at 12% with 3 f-stops. The black point of lots of papers is in the range of L*=6% to 10%, that does simply mean that your contrast range of a printed image is 3 - 4 f-stops and not more - your display can easily do 6 - 7 f-stops contrast ratio, and your camera 8 - 10 f-stops and even more - e.g. by processing RAW data. That explains the dilemma you are in at the darker gray range in your prints. So if you want to get the details out of the dark you need to do some tricks - BPC, local HDR like contrast enhancement in the darker areas etc.
    This all is independent of the printer hardware at this point of discussion, it' s a problem/limitation with all Canon/Epson etc printers - low end or high end. It would be a separate job to find out the black levels of different (types of) inks and which black level they deliver on different papers - e.g. different glossy papers, matte papers - dye vs. pigment inks - printed on different printers - there are wide variances as well - and separate from profiling.
    And since this all can be mixed up it is a source of confusion.
     
    stratman and The Hat like this.

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