Pro-100 B&W Comments

[mikling]

With the OEM inks, it is a nice B&W printer.

Then I compared it with the B&W inkset I was using on the CMYK printers like the MP600 etc.

The output from the MP600 with HP swellable papers look just like what was coming out of the B&W wet process. The Pro-100 looks like an inkjet.
The B&W output from the Pro-100 does not have "the look" of old time B&W.

 

[Smile]

What B&W inkset are comparing to?

 

[mikling]

I've spent the whole weekend understanding how the Pro-100 handles the ink, Color and B&W printing. The B&W inkset I am referring to is what is used to sub out CMYK and just print in color for B&W...for things like the Mp600 etc.

The Pro-100 can get the B&W technically correct but it does not have the look. I guess it is similar to why apps like Siver Efex exists and plain grey scale conversion just doesn't have the look.

What I will say is this. Anyone who thinks that the two grays are mainly used for B&W printing have a large surprise waiting for them. The gray inks are used extensively in color printing and affects a significant part of every color in images. Even in B&W printing, the color inks are used in combination with the greys just like an Epson.

The big challenge is to have an inkset that works WITHOUT profiles or use the Canon profiles. With Kirkland professional glossy I feel I am 90-95% there. It requires a lot of work. Lots of ink have been poured down the drain to reach there and I have not arrived yet.

If you use profiles to get a decent picture ( as many have been indicating , they are missing the point of the Pro-100) , you must kiss the B&W toning featured in the pro-100 bye bye. So that is why my extensive work on the use of third party ink without profiles was done and is still being done.

 

[Mikesht]

With the OEM inks, it is a nice B&W printer.
........
The B&W output from the Pro-100 does not have "the look" of old time B&W.

Forgive me please, can you elaborate on these two sentences. They contradict each other (in my simple mind). So is it or is it not? I am new to printers (not new to hand-printing in dark room though)

Also, you mentioned swellable papers. Are they still in existence? It was my understanding that there are no swellable papers any more, amongst major suppliers anyway?

Thank you very much.
Mikhail
http://mikhailsteinberg.com/

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

As I read the context, he seems to be saying that it's nice, but not nice enough.

 

[Mikesht]

As I read the context, he seems to be saying that it's nice, but not nice enough.

Not sure if I understood it this way...

 

[martin0reg]

Mikling is referring to his special b&w ink set for canon 5 tank printers (CLI dye inks C-M-Y-K and one PGI for text):
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5604&p=1
http://stores.ebay.de/PrecisionColo...215690011&_sid=98545621&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

B&W printing with only black and grey ink is the best way to get really pure and neutral prints.
Similar to the so called "black only" mode with epson r285/p50 (a little grainy because of only one ink - but pure black and white.

Personally I would like to have a b&w ink set for canon 4 tank printers (CLI carts C-M-Y without photo black), because there was the A3 model IX4000/5000 which is easy to buy on ebay and much cheaper than the pro-100. Sadly mikling's b&w ink set is only compatible with canon C-M-Y-K printers ... any chance to make a set for only C-M-Y (i.e. for the IX4000), mikling ???

Remember you have to swap competely to b&w, no color prints anymore. Who will do this with a new pro-100?

 

[Mikesht]

Mikling is referring to his special b&w ink set for canon 5 tank printers (CLI dye inks C-M-Y-K and one PGI for text):
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5604&p=1
http://stores.ebay.de/PrecisionColo...215690011&_sid=98545621&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

B&W printing with only black and grey ink is the best way to get really pure and neutral prints.
Similar to the so called "black only" mode with epson r285/p50 (a little grainy because of only one ink - but pure black and white.

Personally I would like to have a b&w ink set for canon 4 tank printers (CLI carts C-M-Y without photo black), because there was the A3 model IX4000/5000 which is easy to buy on ebay and much cheaper than the pro-100. Sadly mikling's b&w ink set is only compatible with canon C-M-Y-K printers ... any chance to make a set for only C-M-Y (i.e. for the IX4000), mikling ???

Remember you have to swap competely to b&w, no color prints anymore. Who will do this with a new pro-100?

I certainly would not be willing to do that.
I reprinted some of my old color pictures (that were ordered from Mpix and likes) and was very impressed with colors. Would not want to give it up.
Plus, even when I print b/w by hand, I never get completely neutral b/w, and I dont like it as much. I sometimes toned them, but most of a time they come out toned already, based on paper I used.

 

[martin0reg]

...
Plus, even when I print b/w by hand, I never get completely neutral b/w, and I dont like it as much. I sometimes toned them, but most of a time they come out toned already, based on paper I used.

In my experience the "tone" of a wet darkroom (b&w) print is more consistent or uniform compared to the often unpredictable color cast of a b&w print out of color inkjet printer. Furthermore different lighting of the prints can produce different color cast.
Newer inkjet printers are getting better because of gray inks, but they hardly achieve this pure b&w "look". Printing with only black and grey inks could come as close as possible to wet darkroom b&w prints.

 

[jtoolman]

Piezography inks is really the only true way to go. The problem is that you have to dedicate a printer for it. In the case of CONE Inks, only Epsons are supported.

I have an Epson 1400 set up that way. You can use certain driver settings to print. You can use special Photoshop curves to print, and finally you can use a RIP such as the QuadTone RIP and special curves to print.

Results using either method are always excellent.
The ONLY downside to all black systems are usually the inability to produce different tone B&W prints. Cool, Neutral, Warm.
There is an inkset from InkSupply that uses the following. Two shades of neutral black, one warm black, one cool black, one gloss optimizer. You use curves or specific driver settings to print.

I've used this for a while and it was not bad. Not as good as CONE's piezo inks but still not bad at all. Printing on glossy and luster papers has plenty of gloss differential even with the gloss optimizer. So it was best for matte and art papers.

Joe