Paper / Printer profiling with ArgyllCms and EFI ES 1000 for a newbie

mavtop

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Hi all, this is my first post here, i read several guides on the paper profiling, found here like

https://www.printerknowledge.com/th...roduce-excellent-printer-profiles.6878/page-1

but i have some questions to make.

I have an Epson XP 15000 and inside i found only the Epson profiles for Epson Paper, i have some of them but i have also some Canon and other brands paper, so i would like to make profiles for them and if i can make more accurate profiles also for Epson paper.

So a friend will give me the EFI ES 1000 but with no software and no ruler, just the spectophotometer and the usb cable.

I know that it is an old device but i suppose it will work with ArgyllCMS to profile my paper/printer combinations.

Now my questions:

- Can i create a ruler for it easily ? can i use grey cardboard for it ? or do i need to use white cardboard ?

- Can i use the EFI ES 1000 to profile my new Imac 2019 5k retina display too always with ArgyllCMS ? i read that new monitor are not calibrated from old devices, is it true ?

- When i will print the charts would i use some specific software ? like ACPU ? or what ?

- Which settings for the printer and for the paper i will have to use when printing charts ? i have glossy, semigloss and matte paper, but while the first two are Epson the third is another brand so what i have to choose ? i have another paper that is labelled Photo Paper only so what i have to choose for it ?

- When i create the target charts, which size for the chart i have to choose ? i mean dimension of the single pattern, because i read that if it is too small i can have read errors ? but i can have more patterns with smaller dimensions ? which device have i to specify for the pattern ?

- is it better making a charts with less pattern and then re-run argyl to use it again (so 2 runs) or better make a bigger chart (1 run only) ? How many grey i have to use, some use 32/64/128/256, whites and blacks ? are there some standards values ?

- i have found some charts from some users here (tiff files) but i don't understand if i can use them with my printer/device to read directly or is better create them from scratch.

- is there a specific way to read the patterns (i mean speed of moving of the spectophotometer and so on) ?

- last question for now, do you think i can make better profiles for the Epson paper that i have versus the original Epson profiles with my EFI ES 1000 ?

thanks for all the helps
mavtop
 

Ink stained Fingers

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I'm not a user of ArgyllCMS but some of your questions are more generic, you may have a look here to start with
ArgyllCMS

https://www.printerknowledge.com/th...ms-profiling-on-your-computer.8570/post-67743

and use the search funcction of the forum to get to further links

I recommend you to start with a rather small target, so you can get the overall flow working - handling, scanning etc, and you may vary the target size if you have special needs - demanding papers - toned B/W prints -

What would you expect from a 'better' profile than the Epson profiles for their papers - do you have a problem with those ?

You are right that you need specific profiles if you want to use paper/ink/printer combinations which are non-standard - like using 3rd party papers - or Canon papers with an Epson printer etc

And please be aware that it's not just the profile alone influencing/adjusting/correcting the rendering of the colors, the rendering intent itself - mainly perceptual vs. rel. colorimetric - changes the look of a print as well.

You have various color adjustment modes in a typical Epson driver, it's in the extended/custom color adjustment settings that you select 'No color adjustments' to print the profiling target. And that's the setting you use to print with your profile, not with one of the Epson profiles. The Epson profiles are automatically selected with your paper selection if you activate the ICM option.
 
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mavtop

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I'm not a user of ArgyllCMS but some of your questions are more generic, you may have a look here to start with
ArgyllCMS

https://www.printerknowledge.com/th...ms-profiling-on-your-computer.8570/post-67743
thnaks for the link i will give a look into it
and use the search funcction of the forum to get to further links

I recommend you to start with a rather small target, so you can get the overall flow working - handling, scanning etc, and you may vary the target size if you have special needs - demanding papers - toned B/W prints -
small how ? 100-200-400-600-800 patches ?
What would you expect from a 'better' profile than the Epson profiles for their papers - do you have a problem with those ?
I don't know, i would like to know how it was created, if balanced for colors or b/w, if they used 400-2000 patches
You are right that you need specific profiles if you want to use paper/ink/printer combinations which are non-standard - like using 3rd party papers - or Canon papers with an Epson printer etc

And please be aware that it's not just the profile alone influencing/adjusting/correcting the rendering of the colors, the rendering intent itself - mainly perceptual vs. rel. colorimetric - changes the look of a print as well.
yes i know about the intent, but the intent can be selected from apps usually like PS or LR.

When i print charts, i need to select some intent ? or not
You have various color adjustment modes in a typical Epson driver, it's in the extended/custom color adjustment settings that you select 'No color adjustments' to print the profiling target. And that's the setting you use to print with your profile, not with one of the Epson profiles. The Epson profiles are automatically selected with your paper selection if you activate the ICM option.
ok when i will print with my profile i will select No color adjustments, right.

But when i print the charts what i select for paper ? for intent ? for color adjustments ?

i don't know these answers, this is because i'm asking now before the EFI ES 1000 will come to me.
 

Ink stained Fingers

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Don't start with too many questions at the beginning which add to the complexity of color mgmt and profiling, they are valid but can be handled later- just get a handling flow working to begin with.

You may check the spectro with the i1 diagnostics

https://www.xrite.com/de/service-support/downloads/i/i1diagnostics_v4_1_2

It should work as well with the ES-1000 to my knowledge.

First try to match the paper selection in the driver with a supplier recommendation or your best estimate, drivers define some internal parameters which you don't have access to - like the ink limit, it could be that a 3rd party paper cannot take as much ink as an Epson Ultra glossy causing some ink puddles on the printouts, you would have to test other paper selections.

Start with a few hundred patches, that's o.k. for a wide range of papers unless you are working professionaly and would need to meet particular requirements - e.g. matching brand colors, Pantone colors etc.

There is no rendering intent with the 'No color adjustments' option.
 

mavtop

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thanks for now, i downloaded argyllcms but also adobe color print utility and it works, it permits to choose in the print settings, basic with Color Settings Off no color Adjustment, then in the paper selection i can choose from the Epson list of paper like in the screenshoot, so anyway i have to pick one according at the manufacter reccomending settings.

For print quality what i have to choose, normal or fine for the patches print ?

I would like to have profiles more than good if possible so maybe i will go for a 400-800 patterns range, but i would like to have it on a single A4 sheet, still i have to install argyllcms to try to generate some tiff files.

I could use these instructions for EFI ES 1000

https://www.printerknowledge.com/th...ce-excellent-printer-profiles.6878/post-52440

Another question, can i read the patches in another room where i have more space to do that ? or is preferred read in the same room (same lighting conditions) where i print them ?

mavtop
 

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The Hat

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Learning Colour Management is like jumping out of an Aeroplane without a parachute.
It gets a bit tricky when you reach your destination..

Tip:- Check everything twice before you start..
 

Ink stained Fingers

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For print quality what i have to choose, normal or fine for the patches print ?
You should use the same driver settings for the print of the patch sheet and later on for prints when you use that profile, you should check and do test prints which settings give you the 'most acceptable' results - the print resolution is that fine that you don't see any patterns under normal viewing conditions - prints don't take too long - or your judgement by other criteria. Driver settings may have an impact onto the size of the gamut you can acheive, but some Epson printers are tuned such that you get the same gamut with different quality settings - for the same paper. That's some type of testing, optimization once the basics are under control and working.

The Spectro has its own internal light source - you can do the scanning in another room, just avoid direct sunlight.

I'm using i1Profiler with a robot arm which does the scanning, I can use pretty small patches, so I don't really care, it comes to an handling issue for you, how good you can move the spectro with some rather constant speed over the patches, you may start with a larger patch size to begin with to aovid too many rescans in the beginning, part of that is getting used to the process and your own capabilitities.
 

mavtop

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i printed some test images (not the charts for calibration) when i got the printer in glossy paper with normal and fine (or standard and high, the names depends on the app used) but no visible differences i found, so i suspect that i can use standard for the test charts and for the prints.

Good to know i can do the scanning in another room where i have more space so i can use a longer usb cable.

I will have to build the ruler for the scanning, i suspect it can be too thick, i think i will use cardboard or thick paperboard, the color of the ruler will influence the reading ? is preferred a white or black color ?

mavtop
 

Ink stained Fingers

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Good to know i can do the scanning in another room where i have more space so i can use a longer usb cable.
No, please be aware that longer USB connections are not reliable or may not work at all - in general, and not just with the spectro, 2m is about the recommended limit for USB connections. I was under the assumption that you may have another computer in that room and a short connection to the spectro. And there is another reason specific to the spectro, it uses a small halogen lamp internally which is drawing some power, and if you use a long cable you get a voltage drop along the cable resistance which changes the color temperature of the lamp, and you may even get a calibration error from the spectro. I have such case - with an old i1Pro which does not run on an USB port delivering 4.9 volt but runs via a hub with an external power supply and 5.05 volt at the USB port.
It is not an issue for you at this time, but there is another effect with older halogen lamps and lower voltages - their emission spectrum in the UV range drops which changes the impact on optical brighteners. You could get your spectro serviced longer time ago which included the replacement of the halogen lamp for this reason. But this service is not available anymore since years, just run the diagnostic to make sure it is working.

You should use a white paper behind your patch sheet, different papers are translucent to a varying degree.
 
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mavtop

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Ok so i will use the diagnostic to see if the lamp is ok, then i will try to use a shorter USB cable or its original cable anyway in the other room i have a laptop with a big table while in the printing room, i just have the iMac and the printer just to work images and print them

Ok i was trying to create some patch charts, so i used some commands found on the forum, but i don't understand some things, for example

Generating CLS 870 patches on A4 sheet
targen -v -d2 -G -g90 -t -f870 cls_870_A4
iRGB test chart
White patches = 4
Black patches = 4
Composite Grey steps = 90
Full spread patches = 870
Full points:
100%
Total number of patches = 870
Execution time = 0.485162 seconds

printtarg -v -ii1 -a0.82 -b -T360 -P -m1 -pA4 -L cls_870_A4
Paper chosen is A4 [210.0 x 297.0 mm]
Patches = 870
Test patches per row = 29
Rows per page = 30, patches per page = 870
Rows in last strip = 30, patches in last row = 29
Total pages needed = 1
Worst case delta E = 11.665831
Worst case direction distinction delta E = 52.165455
Optimising layout for strip reader:
100%
After optimisation, worst delta E = 61.498482
Worst case direction distinction delta E = 59.574466
Creating file 'cls_870_A4.tif'

Now my question is the delta E errors are important ? what does it say or suggest ? And why after optimization the values are higher than previous ?

mavtop
 
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