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New, expired OEM cartridge that won't drain

Discussion in 'Hewlett Packard HP InkJet Printers' started by ThrillaMozilla, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. Apr 16, 2018
    ThrillaMozilla

    ThrillaMozilla Printer Master

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    This is interesting. I just acquired a new HP564K XL cartridge that expired in January 2015. That's a pigment black, sponge and ink chamber type cartridge, similar to Canon cartridges. It's for an HP Photosmart C309a. It's apparently a new, genuine HP cartridge.

    I tried to drain it using the tissue method, but after two attempts it only lost about 8 grams. When I shake it, the ink chamber sounds full, and I think it only drained the sponge.

    I should be able to drain under vacuum and refill it, but I'm concerned it won't drain properly in the printer. I have two other cartridges just like it from the same package.

    I guess my plan is to refill it and see if it will drain then, but does anyone know what's happening and have a remedy?
     
  2. Apr 17, 2018
    PeterBJ

    PeterBJ Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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    Did the printer reject the cartridge due to it being past the use by date held in the chip? Or didn't the cartridge work due to some of the water/solvent had evaporated making the ink too viscous? Or?

    If you have more of the same kind of cartridges could you then weigh one of them and compare the weight to the weight of a normal and functional new cartridge?
     
  3. Apr 18, 2018
    ThrillaMozilla

    ThrillaMozilla Printer Master

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    The cartridge has not been in the printer yet. I expect the printer to complain but use the cartridge anyway.

    I bought this with other cartridges to have some spares. It was old enough that I planned to just drain it and refill it before the first use.

    The bare cartridge weighed 26.63 g new. It's one of the newer, much smaller cartridges. I don't have the new weight of any other cartridges of that type to compare it with (except for two others from the same package that I haven't opened yet). Do you have that weight?

    I pulled some pharmacist's solution through the sponge and refilled it partly with ink. It still doesn't drain well. Maybe if I pull some Windex through it?
     
  4. Apr 19, 2018
    ThrillaMozilla

    ThrillaMozilla Printer Master

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    There are two other cartridges from the same batch, and they have essentially the same weight. I'm trying to drain them right now.

    The cartridge does drain to a certain extent. I suppose the sponge drains, but the ink chamber does not drain. (EDIT: I can hear liquid in the chamber when I shake it.) Perhaps it's gummed up at the side wall, where air is supposed to flow, or at the connection between chambers. I guess that's why people purge cartridges? I've never had that happen before.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2018
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  5. Apr 19, 2018
    PeterBJ

    PeterBJ Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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    I also thought the reason for purging a cartridge with ink flow problems was cleaning, but according to posts by @mikling the reason for the need to flush is foam forming in the sponge. This foam must be replaced with liquid to restore full capacity. See this "Megathread".

    I have not seen it on Canon OEM cartridges but some compatible PGI-5 PGBK cartridges had the ink outlet covered in a substance that looked like shoe polish. Even after scraping this stuff away the cartridges didn't work well.

    If the flushed cartridge cannot be made to work after flushing it would be interesting to see photos of an opened up cartridge. AFAIK the biological growth problem only affected refill ink for Canon, not Canon OEM cartridges and not HP, but maybe?
     
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  6. Apr 20, 2018
    berttheghost

    berttheghost Printing Ninja

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    Capt. Obvious here. Be certain that when you removed the wrapper from the cart, the vent seal at the top of the cart opened up and is breathing freely.

    Good luck getting that sucker clean. Consider tossing it in favor of transparent refillable carts. Another crap shoot, I guess ...
     
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  7. Apr 24, 2018
    ThrillaMozilla

    ThrillaMozilla Printer Master

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    I think I have some answers, and a new procedure and recommendation. To summarize, in this case the problem was not air in the sponge. (And remember, these were new but expired cartridges.) I purged with ammonia and distilled water using the Freedom method, and by gosh they sure drain now. I believe the problem was pigment that got a little dried or ink that got too viscous from drying.

    Keep in mind that I still use a the Freedom Fill, so there is no problem with foam in the sponge if I do it carefully. And especially with pigment black, I do do it carefully. I have never had any problem before. Air is sucked out, and only liquid goes back. Pigment black is especially easy to fill. Besides, these were OEM factory-filled.

    So I purged these with Freedom Filling. I started with distilled water with a squirt of concentrated ammonium hydroxe added. I had noticed how effectively Windex cleans dried ink off glass, and I figured (without testing) that it was due to ammonia. First I sucked out all the ink. Then I filled it as full as I could get it with the ammonia solution, then I let it sit for a while and worked on the other cartridge. Emptied again, repeat, and then rinse in the same way 2-3 times with distilled water. I'm paranoid about tap water, so none was used. At some point I sucked ammonia solution and then distilled water and air through the vent to make sure to clean out the upper portion of the sponge.

    Filled again with distilled water, and drained with a Kleenex. Even though the rinse water was still a little gray, by gosh that exit sponge was white. 20 g and still draining. I've never gotten a cartridge to drain so thoroughly. I purged two of the three; I should have purged the other one too. My standard practice from now on with expired pigment cartridges.

    Ordinarily, with dye cartridges I don't worry about ink drying out, because fresh ink into the cartridge will dilute it. But for these pigment cartridges, new ink won't dissolve the sludge.

    Now, about these new pigment black cartridges. They only hold 15 g of ink. I fill the old ones with 30 g.
     
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  8. Apr 24, 2018
    ThrillaMozilla

    ThrillaMozilla Printer Master

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    Thank you for posting that. I had looked for it but had given up. I have a post on page 3 of that thread that explains my thinking, which is somewhat different from Mikling's.

    I think that's closer to what happened here. A solid or viscous deposit somewhere. Purging required. A new experience for me.
     
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