Ink levels on Canon mp780 in OS X (tiger)
- Thread starter thdesha
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- Epson, Canon, HP... A "few"
That's pretty standard on any OS.thdesha said:
The newer chipped canons have more refined readings at the cost of having to use overly expensive OEM carts... but basically the way the older Canons work with their prism detection is that you will only get a low ink notice when the spongeless part of the ink tank is empty.. or at least that's what I've noted when I've been casually checking where my MP750 is at with ink... Could be wrong though..
Dan@blue-optix
Getting Fingers Dirty
I use an mp730 @ work, that shows: Full, Half Full, Low, Empty(needs replacing)
My 760 at home shows full, low, Empty (with a versy short time between low and empty usually)
However on the display on the printer it shows as it should. I think its just some iffy software from canon for this range of printers.
My understanding of the system is:
Full cart = full
Empty or very low chaber = Half full
Then the printer switches over to "dot count" the same principle for showing the ink levels in a cart without a prism
Then when the printer thinks the cartridge should be empty it shows up as such.
This is why the spongeless cartridges concern me - prism reads empty and infact the cartridge IS empty but the printer still thinks it has a sponge full of ink to draw from.
I would have thought the sponge holds about 1/3 of the ink or maybe even half.
Regs,
D
My 760 at home shows full, low, Empty (with a versy short time between low and empty usually)
However on the display on the printer it shows as it should. I think its just some iffy software from canon for this range of printers.
My understanding of the system is:
Full cart = full
Empty or very low chaber = Half full
Then the printer switches over to "dot count" the same principle for showing the ink levels in a cart without a prism
Then when the printer thinks the cartridge should be empty it shows up as such.
This is why the spongeless cartridges concern me - prism reads empty and infact the cartridge IS empty but the printer still thinks it has a sponge full of ink to draw from.
I would have thought the sponge holds about 1/3 of the ink or maybe even half.
Regs,
D
To Dan,
I think you are correct that the larger sponge section probably holds more like slightly over half the ink when the cartridge is new---exactly how the cartridge emties is less clear to me---but in the non-chipped Canons of the BCI-3&6 variety, there is some evidence that (1) Low ink warning is triggered when about 25% of total cartridge capacity is still in the sponge. (2) That there is a delay mechanism built in because the reserve tank totally empties quite some time before the low ink warning is triggered--not sure what you mean by dot count but clearly some printer guestimate is occuring after the optical sensor shows the reserve tank is empty.---and I have seen posts saying that when this question is put to Canon techs that are forthcoming, the techs warn that removing and replacing the same cartridge can screw the guestimate up.
Of course in the new chipped Canons--the chip can count nozzle fires and maybe be far more accurate than the older simple optical system plus guestimate.
I think you are correct that the larger sponge section probably holds more like slightly over half the ink when the cartridge is new---exactly how the cartridge emties is less clear to me---but in the non-chipped Canons of the BCI-3&6 variety, there is some evidence that (1) Low ink warning is triggered when about 25% of total cartridge capacity is still in the sponge. (2) That there is a delay mechanism built in because the reserve tank totally empties quite some time before the low ink warning is triggered--not sure what you mean by dot count but clearly some printer guestimate is occuring after the optical sensor shows the reserve tank is empty.---and I have seen posts saying that when this question is put to Canon techs that are forthcoming, the techs warn that removing and replacing the same cartridge can screw the guestimate up.
Of course in the new chipped Canons--the chip can count nozzle fires and maybe be far more accurate than the older simple optical system plus guestimate.
Dan@blue-optix
Getting Fingers Dirty
Osage,
By dot count i mean the method by which the printer knows how much ink goes onto the page whether it be a couple of letters, or a full page of text - see where i'm coming from?
I hessitate to use the term page count because it implies that the cartridge will print the same amount of pages regardless of coverage.
I found this pic of how the prism works -
I presume its an accurate description, i cant find the info on the dot count stuff to be 100%, i'll have another look later.
Regs,
Dan
By dot count i mean the method by which the printer knows how much ink goes onto the page whether it be a couple of letters, or a full page of text - see where i'm coming from?
I hessitate to use the term page count because it implies that the cartridge will print the same amount of pages regardless of coverage.
I found this pic of how the prism works -
I presume its an accurate description, i cant find the info on the dot count stuff to be 100%, i'll have another look later.
Regs,
Dan
To Dan,
I totally agree with the prism drawing---you have a light source through the cartridge walls--which will hit and reflect up to a sensor--if there is ink in the reserve tank enough of the beam will be interrupted so the sensor will not trigger--after the reserve tank empties the light level perceived by the sensor increases in intensity to a level where the sensor perceives the reserve tank is empty.--so we agree to that point that some time thereafter the printer software triggers the low ink warning.
After that--and I really hate to use the word disagree---and prefer the word speculating---but I can understand your explanation of dot count for lack of a better term. But I do frankly wonder about your last sentence---"I'll have another look later."----because I strongly suspect that Canon regards their system as a basic trade secret--more inquisitive Canon reps may get a few answers to give the public---but only a few people actually involved with the programming at Canon have the actual answers.--and the question is will they share the details
in any great depth?
But I am sure looking forward to being pleasantly surprised if you can get more definitive answers and get this past my level of speculation.
I totally agree with the prism drawing---you have a light source through the cartridge walls--which will hit and reflect up to a sensor--if there is ink in the reserve tank enough of the beam will be interrupted so the sensor will not trigger--after the reserve tank empties the light level perceived by the sensor increases in intensity to a level where the sensor perceives the reserve tank is empty.--so we agree to that point that some time thereafter the printer software triggers the low ink warning.
After that--and I really hate to use the word disagree---and prefer the word speculating---but I can understand your explanation of dot count for lack of a better term. But I do frankly wonder about your last sentence---"I'll have another look later."----because I strongly suspect that Canon regards their system as a basic trade secret--more inquisitive Canon reps may get a few answers to give the public---but only a few people actually involved with the programming at Canon have the actual answers.--and the question is will they share the details
in any great depth?
But I am sure looking forward to being pleasantly surprised if you can get more definitive answers and get this past my level of speculation.
Dan@blue-optix
Getting Fingers Dirty
Osage, this is taken from the Canon site:
"Canon Printers come with the unique ink tank system and high precision ink level detection system..
Canon uses three eyes to detect the remaining ink level: optical detection, a dot-count method and visual inspection.
This ensures maximum utilization of the ink and hence works out to be more economical during usage. "
By dot count it means it counts the droplets of ink that go down onto the page. Which is one of the same principle other manufacturers use as they dont have the optical sensor, just the sponge.
Its a more advanced method than the older systems that used to just use a Page Counter, regardless of ink usage. I think most machines that use the BCi21's use page count, then the bci24's used dot count. Its slightly more accurate that way...
Another interesting extract from the Canon site:
***************************************
Disadvantages of compatible inks?
Third-party inks (also known as compatible inks) are inks by other brands advertised for use with Canon printers.
While it may be tempting to purchase such compatible inks because of their lower prices, this may prove to be false economy when you realize the downsides to such inks.
Compatible inks do not have the benefit of such rigorous product development and may consist of chemicals of dubious quality.
The environment in which the cartridges are made is equally doubtful and so the inks may be contaminated.
This may result in one or all of the below:
Poor and/or inconsistent print quality
Unreliable cartridges
Ink leakage
Leaking ink cartridges would lead to clogged or choked print heads and result in premature wearing out or damage to the printer.
Constant repairs, downtime, printer problems and costly repairs all translate into wasted time and money.
The best bet to reduce your odds of getting stuck with a bogus cartridge is to buy only from authorized genuine Canon Consumable dealers.
Non genuine cartridges and inks are simply not compatible with the high quality, sophisticated Canon printing system.
**************************************************
Regs,
Dan
"Canon Printers come with the unique ink tank system and high precision ink level detection system..
Canon uses three eyes to detect the remaining ink level: optical detection, a dot-count method and visual inspection.
This ensures maximum utilization of the ink and hence works out to be more economical during usage. "
By dot count it means it counts the droplets of ink that go down onto the page. Which is one of the same principle other manufacturers use as they dont have the optical sensor, just the sponge.
Its a more advanced method than the older systems that used to just use a Page Counter, regardless of ink usage. I think most machines that use the BCi21's use page count, then the bci24's used dot count. Its slightly more accurate that way...
Another interesting extract from the Canon site:
***************************************
Disadvantages of compatible inks?
Third-party inks (also known as compatible inks) are inks by other brands advertised for use with Canon printers.
While it may be tempting to purchase such compatible inks because of their lower prices, this may prove to be false economy when you realize the downsides to such inks.
Compatible inks do not have the benefit of such rigorous product development and may consist of chemicals of dubious quality.
The environment in which the cartridges are made is equally doubtful and so the inks may be contaminated.
This may result in one or all of the below:
Poor and/or inconsistent print quality
Unreliable cartridges
Ink leakage
Leaking ink cartridges would lead to clogged or choked print heads and result in premature wearing out or damage to the printer.
Constant repairs, downtime, printer problems and costly repairs all translate into wasted time and money.
The best bet to reduce your odds of getting stuck with a bogus cartridge is to buy only from authorized genuine Canon Consumable dealers.
Non genuine cartridges and inks are simply not compatible with the high quality, sophisticated Canon printing system.
**************************************************
Regs,
Dan
- Thread starter
- #8
Thanks for the info,replies. I am new to this printer always had Epsons before. On the printers display it show the large blk ink tank half empty, however all I have been able to see under the software utility is full even after printing a lot with the blk ink. I recently updated the utility software on Canon's website hoping it would improve but it's still same as before. I am awaiting empty to see if it detects it correctly.
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